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Sorry, I didn't mean you should be ashamed about using old software. What I meant was that we should be ashamed that other people are using old software. I am

by tinco 13y ago

Sorry, I didn't mean you should be ashamed about using old software. What I meant was that we should be ashamed that other people are using old software. I am helping my girlfriend to learn Javascript, and it hurts inside that every once in a while she gets confused with something I have to explain her it's because the author of the language made rookie mistakes/dumb decisions 20 years ago.

DennisP 13y ago
You may know this, but the author of Javascript was under severe time pressure, and wanted to just implement Scheme but got overruled by management.
- tinco 13y ago
  Yeah, it's unfair of me to point the blame at mr Eich with the 'the author'. Javascript definitely was no small feat and has withstood the test of time very well. My point lies more in the '20 years' part of the argument, that in all that time we couldn't get these wrinkles ironed out.
  - hueving 13y ago
    >My point lies more in the '20 years' part of the argument, that in all that time we couldn't get these wrinkles ironed out. Javascript has the requirement of backwards compatibility. The limitation is not technical. It's disingenuous to suggest it's so simple to replace these things or it's extremely naive. Look at the recent HTTP redirect article for example. Something as simple as redirects have been implemented incorrectly for a long time. Browser vendors are well aware of it, but they cannot change the behavior because it will break every existing site that expects the broken behavior. You should be more impressed with the things that last 20 years, not embarrassed. It means they were actually engineered well enough to be a good general solution.
    - jbrechtel 13y ago
      I don't see tinco saying it is simple to replace these things. Where do you see that? I suspect you're unconsciously framing tinco's position this way... Another possible way to interpret the 'ashamed' statement is that tinco is simply saying we should be trying harder to move forward when we are using such old technologies with such warts. Why can't we get rid of the warts? We should try harder. Perhaps this is what tinco is saying? I think at least equally plausible to the naive position you're projecting onto tinco...that it's 'simple' to replace these things. Kudos to Neovim for making the effort! It is certainly appreciated.
- general_failure 13y ago
  Or maybe eich was a terrible programmer and it shows. Serious my some of the is stuff are major blunders. No amount of time pressure can be used as an excuse for such poor design.

by tinco 13y ago

DennisP 13y ago

You may know this, but the author of Javascript was under severe time pressure, and wanted to just implement Scheme but got overruled by management.

tinco 13y ago
Yeah, it's unfair of me to point the blame at mr Eich with the 'the author'. Javascript definitely was no small feat and has withstood the test of time very well. My point lies more in the '20 years' part of the argument, that in all that time we couldn't get these wrinkles ironed out.
- hueving 13y ago
  >My point lies more in the '20 years' part of the argument, that in all that time we couldn't get these wrinkles ironed out. Javascript has the requirement of backwards compatibility. The limitation is not technical. It's disingenuous to suggest it's so simple to replace these things or it's extremely naive. Look at the recent HTTP redirect article for example. Something as simple as redirects have been implemented incorrectly for a long time. Browser vendors are well aware of it, but they cannot change the behavior because it will break every existing site that expects the broken behavior. You should be more impressed with the things that last 20 years, not embarrassed. It means they were actually engineered well enough to be a good general solution.
  - jbrechtel 13y ago
    I don't see tinco saying it is simple to replace these things. Where do you see that? I suspect you're unconsciously framing tinco's position this way... Another possible way to interpret the 'ashamed' statement is that tinco is simply saying we should be trying harder to move forward when we are using such old technologies with such warts. Why can't we get rid of the warts? We should try harder. Perhaps this is what tinco is saying? I think at least equally plausible to the naive position you're projecting onto tinco...that it's 'simple' to replace these things. Kudos to Neovim for making the effort! It is certainly appreciated.
general_failure 13y ago
Or maybe eich was a terrible programmer and it shows. Serious my some of the is stuff are major blunders. No amount of time pressure can be used as an excuse for such poor design.