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NASA would design a new feature, send it through half a dozen design reviews, apply a few pounds of paperwork, test it on the ground, test fly it (maybe) once,

NASA would design a new feature, send it through half a dozen design reviews, apply a few pounds of paperwork, test it on the ground, test fly it (maybe) once, and then deem it "correct" and fly it as-is forever. Manned. This happened with STS and it's happening with SLS. If you can believe it, the SLS/Orion schedule is this: 1. This year, the first Orion will fly unmanned on a Delta 4. For two orbits. 2. Three years later (2017) the second Orion will fly unmanned on the very first launch of SLS--around the moon. 3. Three years later (2021), the third Orion will fly manned, on the second launch of the SLS, to rendezvous with a captured asteroid. 4. After that, they hope someone somewhere will come up with additional payloads for SLS and/or missions for Orion. Know anyone who needs a giant rocket at $1B a pop? Have them call NASA. They're targeting one launch per year, starting 2022. It's completely mad. I wouldn't ride on the second flight of a rocket designed by God Himself. Take a look, by the way, at the Apollo test program: http://www.thespacerace.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0 http://www.thespacerace.com/forum/index.php?topic=1089.0 Apollo, granted, was at a completely novel scale. But still: one test, all up? Then three years? I won't be able to watch. By the time SLS-1 gets off the ground (even if I grant them their schedule) SpaceX will probably be launching a reusable Falcon Heavy (at about 2/3 the payload of the SLS Block I) every other month, for $200M or less. And they'll have, oh, about 100 F9 core-launches under their belt. The SpaceX plan sure looks like a better idea to me. For anything. Other than spending lots of money. By the time SLS-2 is picking up their asteroid, Elon will probably be watching from frickin' Mars.

deletes 13y ago
By that time, Space X will be hired to fly parallel, take pictures and serve as a backup. Couldn't resist
- sp332 13y ago
  By that time, SpaceX will be selling tickets to tourists who want to ride along and watch in person :)
Crito 13y ago
> NASA would design a new feature, send it through half a dozen design reviews, apply a few pounds of paperwork, test it on the ground, test fly it (maybe) once, and then deem it "correct" and fly it as-is forever. Manned. Traditionally, until the Shuttle anyway, NASA has been more cautious. Apollo had 2 unmanned Saturn V launches and 4 unmanned Saturn 1B launches, 10 unmanned Saturn 1 launches, and 5 Little Joe II launches. Beyond that, Apollo 8, 10, 11, and 12 were place on free-return trajectories for safety, and 7,8,9,10 were all essentially test missions for aspects of 11. Project Mercury similarly had several unmanned test flights. Gemini only had two, though the Titan II (non-GLV) already had several successful flights (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/USAF_ICBM_and_NASA_Launch_Vehicle_Flight_Test_Successes_and_Failures_%28highlighted%29.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/USAF_ICBM...)
jccooper 13y ago
I repent using the broad brush against NASA. It's a very diverse organization, and above I mean the "big ticket vehicle design" side of NASA. And the core of their problem is that the whole program was basically designed by Congress. I'm sure they're doing their best to deal with the absurd hand they were dealt. NASA efforts seem to be most sane in inverse proportion to the amount of attention paid to them by Congress. Much of what NASA does is science and small-scale engineering that Congress doesn't know or care about, and that's usually done pretty well and efficiently. But the more visible parts really make up for that in their absurdity. (Even the more agile parts aren't exactly lean and mean, of course. Project Morpheus, which is running an Armadillo-derived rocket, is a very agile program for NASA, and has more than 25 people full time. Armadillo at its peak was, what, half a dozen?)

deletes 13y ago

By that time, Space X will be hired to fly parallel, take pictures and serve as a backup. Couldn't resist

sp332 13y ago
By that time, SpaceX will be selling tickets to tourists who want to ride along and watch in person :)

Crito 13y ago

> NASA would design a new feature, send it through half a dozen design reviews, apply a few pounds of paperwork, test it on the ground, test fly it (maybe) once, and then deem it "correct" and fly it as-is forever. Manned. Traditionally, until the Shuttle anyway, NASA has been more cautious. Apollo had 2 unmanned Saturn V launches and 4 unmanned Saturn 1B launches, 10 unmanned Saturn 1 launches, and 5 Little Joe II launches. Beyond that, Apollo 8, 10, 11, and 12 were place on free-return trajectories for safety, and 7,8,9,10 were all essentially test missions for aspects of 11. Project Mercury similarly had several unmanned test flights. Gemini only had two, though the Titan II (non-GLV) already had several successful flights (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/USAF_ICBM_and_NASA_Launch_Vehicle_Flight_Test_Successes_and_Failures_%28highlighted%29.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/USAF_ICBM...)

jccooper 13y ago

I repent using the broad brush against NASA. It's a very diverse organization, and above I mean the "big ticket vehicle design" side of NASA. And the core of their problem is that the whole program was basically designed by Congress. I'm sure they're doing their best to deal with the absurd hand they were dealt. NASA efforts seem to be most sane in inverse proportion to the amount of attention paid to them by Congress. Much of what NASA does is science and small-scale engineering that Congress doesn't know or care about, and that's usually done pretty well and efficiently. But the more visible parts really make up for that in their absurdity. (Even the more agile parts aren't exactly lean and mean, of course. Project Morpheus, which is running an Armadillo-derived rocket, is a very agile program for NASA, and has more than 25 people full time. Armadillo at its peak was, what, half a dozen?)