5 ms·

On One Laptop per Child

13 points by ph0rque 17y ago

TomOfTTB 17y ago
On the topic of flat out silly defenses I think this takes the cake. A few things... First, supposedly Mr. Negroponte "ended the discussion of whether computers belong in children’s hands". Umm...Does anyone remember this discussion? Because I can’t recall a time where people were saying kids shouldn’t have computers. Who exactly was making that argument? Second, he supposedly "answered the question of whether inexpensive computers can be useful." But the very argument that’s coming up more and more lately is one that points out these computers weren’t terribly useful because they had tons of flaws. Don’t get me wrong, I believe inexpensive computers can be useful but I don’t believe that was proven by Mr. Negroponte. Finally, note that rather than give actual accomplishments she quotes a projected figure to justify the actions of OLPC. In my life I’ve learned that people who quote projections as accomplishments are usually the ones who have no actual accomplishments to point to. In the end, this post is nothing more than misplaced hero worship.
- wheels 17y ago
  > Who exactly was making that argument? There's a fairly active debate: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=computers+in+school http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=computers+in+school http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4032737.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4032737.stm I personally believe that computer usage in schools should be limited.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    Computers in schools is not the same as "should kids have computers" More over if that was what she was talking about it isn't a debate that was "ended" by the olpc
- krschultz 17y ago
  Anytime someone tries to end a discussion by asserting "there is no more debate", you know they are on tenuous ground and frantically want to not be challenged. I did the buy 2 get 1 OLPC deal and feel burned today by their changing positions. I also don't buy that it is the best solution for kids, or even that PCs are necessary for education in all cases.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    Well, and my point has always been, just imagine if you were in a third world country. Imagine being the kid whose never had a computer before. One day this big truck pulls up and you're told you're getting a PC. Then you find that so-called PC either breaks (like yours did) or works but works like a $99 toy from radioshack. That's downright horrifying to imagine from my perspective. (As I'm editing this someone has voted this down to 0. I wonder if that person even cares about the kids the OLPC was supposed to help and if they do why are they willing to forgive the rampant reports of flaws?)
    - msc 17y ago
      I am in a third world country, in fact, I believe our country was the first to buy these laptops. I saw a couple of kids on television getting on Wikipedia with those $99 toys. Those $99 toys are $99 more expensive than any toy they ever had. If said toy breaks, they can take it to a repair center to fix the issues or call in for technical support. I care about the OLPC helping the kids, and I think having these laptops is a vast improvement over (sadly, in some cases) having absolutely nothing. Would you like it better if they didn't get the laptops at all?
- jacobolus 17y ago
  Mary Lou Jepsen has a list of accomplishments pages long, and is one of the most brilliant people I’ve ever met. You should be careful about tossing around vague inanities like “… usually the ones who have no actual accomplishments …” which aside from sounding pretentious don’t add in the least to the discussion. In any case, I think you misunderstood: this is the projected number of cheap netbook-like laptops which will be sold (that’s between several companies), not the number of XOs, and the numbers are reasonably reliable a year or two out, because they actually have to gear up to manufacturing these things at scale well in advance of making them. I think it’s without question that OLPC and Nicholas’s pushing on the public consciousness, and as importantly on hardware vendors, has sped by at least a few years the pace of cheap laptop production. There really weren’t any sub-$400–500 laptops before Nicholas was talking about them 4–5 years ago, and now there’s an exploding market. Most hardware manufacturers (not to mention pundits and “technologists” and so forth) laughed in his face because they said the margins would be too low to make sense, and the components couldn’t be had for the price. Then at some point he convinced Quanta to jump on board, and everyone started looking really closely. (disclaimer: I spent a year at OLPC as an intern)
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    I note you don't list said accomplishments. Good intentions are not in themselves accomplishments. Sure the media will love you for "creating a $100" computer but if that computer doesn't actually help who you said it would that isn't an accomplishment.. Bottom Line: Defending one's accomplshments by saying they have accomplishments is circular logic If anything I'm more weary of her for using a non-profit to develop technology she's now trying to sell while all the while selling flawed, next to useless computers to poor kids. (I suspect her intentions were good for the record all I'm saying is the facts paint a picture that is suspect)
    - jacobolus 17y ago
      Are you for real? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen Quoting from there, since it’s easier: “She co-created the first holographic video system in the world at the MIT Media Lab in 1989 [...] At OLPC, notably, Jepsen invented the laptop's sunlight-readable display technology.” You don’t get put in charge of the technology for displays at Intel (her job before OLPC) by being unaccomplished. Here’s a (non-exhaustive, I think) list of her patents: http://www.google.com/patents?q=mary+lou+jepsen&btnG=Search+Patents http://www.google.com/patents?q=mary+lou+jepsen&btnG=Sea... Several of those, like the OLPC dual-mode display, are really clever (better than anything else of the kind, feasible to manufacture on existing fabs, no more expensive than existing displays, etc.). Also, your implication that her involvement with OLPC was “suspiciously” predatory (or for that matter the implication that OLPC on the whole is some kind of exploitative scam) is a cheap insult below the expected level of this forum. Really bright high-level engineer–executives who take out a few years of their careers to work at well below pay grade for non-profit companies trying to change the world should be lauded, in my book.
- jcl 17y ago
  She's talking not of the OLPC's success but that of netbooks as a whole (which is her current bread-and-butter). 50 million sold in 2009 is conceivable, 25 million is more realistic, given that about five million sold in the first quarter of the year. She is right that without Negroponte there would be no OLPC, and she is also probably correct that without the OLPC's tremendous "$100 laptop" buzz in 2006, there would be no Asus Eee in 2007, which really kicked off the netbook craze. Regarding the discussion of whether computers belong in children's hands, I had the opposite reaction: The idea that each child should have their own laptop computer that they carry with them is still a fairly controversial one, IMHO. Negroponte hardly ended the discussion, but he did serve to legitimize/popularize Seymour Papert's earlier Dynabook proposal.
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    I'm sorry but this is just BS. Other than "they're both small" name me all the similarities between the Eee PC and the OLPC. How did a computer sold to kids in third world countries inspire a bunch of middle class Americans to buy netbooks. More over for your theory to be true you have to ignore the constant attempts companies have been making at what is now the netbook market. Everything from the Newton to Microsoft's Handheld PC. Netbooks are flourshing now because technology has gotten to the point where you can fit a full OS on them. It has nothing to do with the OLPC
    - jcl 17y ago
      From a Forbes article on Jonney Shih, CEO of Asus: But around that time, two low-cost notebook models were making waves. Last November tech guru Nicholas Negroponte's One Laptop Per Child, or OLPC, program released its first batch of prototype laptops designed for children in the developing world. And Intel was getting ready to launch a competing laptop, the Classmate PC, for a similar market. So, Shih thought, why not make a small, inexpensive laptop for grown-ups? http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/1112/024a.html http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/1112/024a.html For years prior to the OLPC, we had been able to make a small laptop with a full OS... The OLPC's AMD Geode CPU was seven years old at the time they chose to use it. What none of the manufacturers realized was that there was any sort of market for a vastly underpowered, almost unusably cramped, extremely cheap laptop that attempts to run a full OS. The media buzz created by the OLPC revealed this market.
jcl 17y ago
This is Mary Lou Jepsen, the former CTO of OLPC, apparently weighing in on Ivan Krstic's criticism of Nicholas Negroponte's criticism of the OLPC's original choice of software stack. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=719048 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=719048
- thingie 17y ago
  And she hardly adds any argument or anything, it's just like "don't touch our brave hero Negroponte, because some of his achievements, completely irrelevant to the software stack and its critisism, which is the discussed problem". (Plus I'm really sick of disgusting pathos of next to the last sentence.)
TrevorJ 17y ago
Am I the only one who thinks that for some children, the last thing they need if for somebody to shove a computer on them? I use computer every single day in my professional and personal life. I love them. But I am eternally grateful to my parents that they didn't give me unlimited access to one till High School. I would have missed out on untold hours of playing outdoors, building things, taking things apart and generally just learning about the world if somebody had shoved a laptop at me when I was 8 or 9.
- pmorici 17y ago
  That's goes along with a point people often miss. Giving a computer to a child isn't going to automatically impart vast amounts of wisdom. A computer much like a book or a pencil is a tool of learning. The child still has to use it in the right way to learn anything. It's always irked me a bit when people try to pin low achievement in schools on lack of computers.
asciilifeform 17y ago
Is this the same Jepsen who "took the money and ran"? "The money" in this case being the LCD technology she developed - funded by our donations.
- jcl 17y ago
  The patents have stayed with OLPC. "Pixel Qi -- my new company -- is now licensing my inventions from OLPC. This isn't an OLPC employee benefit, it's a deal I created with OLPC and Pixel Qi, and the benefit will go to OLPC and to the children of the world, lowering the price of the laptops, and thus allowing more kids to get laptops." http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080107182525297 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080107182525297
  - asciilifeform 17y ago
    > The patents have stayed with OLPC. This tells us nothing about how they will be licensed. They will be available for free use by the well-connected, but certainly not to you or me.
    - bitwize 17y ago
      Since you and I don't build LCD panels in our spare time, I suppose that may be just as well.
- jacobolus 17y ago
  No money from donations really went to funding the development of the LCD technology. Mary Lou invented it, and the manufacturer put in the implementation engineering effort. OLPC’s management and development budget was paid for by corporate sponsorships from Google, RedHat, and others. Any of “your” donations were put directly into paying for laptops for children, at cost. Your outrage is misplaced.
cromulent 17y ago
Tremendous effort by Negroponte, to be sure. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford to give my children laptops. For some reason, it doesn't seem important to do so. I guess I just don't get it. Perhaps teaching children to read and giving them access to books is more worthy of effort than giving them laptops. Not as newsworthy or noteworthy though. Anyway, enough of my quibbling. If more of us had the drive and will to make the world a better place that Negroponte has, surely the world would be a better place.

13 points by ph0rque 17y ago

On the topic of flat out silly defenses I think this takes the cake. A few things... First, supposedly Mr. Negroponte "ended the discussion of whether computers belong in children’s hands". Umm...Does anyone remember this discussion? Because I can’t recall a time where people were saying kids shouldn’t have computers. Who exactly was making that argument? Second, he supposedly "answered the question of whether inexpensive computers can be useful." But the very argument that’s coming up more and more lately is one that points out these computers weren’t terribly useful because they had tons of flaws. Don’t get me wrong, I believe inexpensive computers can be useful but I don’t believe that was proven by Mr. Negroponte. Finally, note that rather than give actual accomplishments she quotes a projected figure to justify the actions of OLPC. In my life I’ve learned that people who quote projections as accomplishments are usually the ones who have no actual accomplishments to point to. In the end, this post is nothing more than misplaced hero worship.

wheels 17y ago
> Who exactly was making that argument? There's a fairly active debate: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=computers+in+school http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=computers+in+school http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4032737.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/4032737.stm I personally believe that computer usage in schools should be limited.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  Computers in schools is not the same as "should kids have computers" More over if that was what she was talking about it isn't a debate that was "ended" by the olpc
krschultz 17y ago
Anytime someone tries to end a discussion by asserting "there is no more debate", you know they are on tenuous ground and frantically want to not be challenged. I did the buy 2 get 1 OLPC deal and feel burned today by their changing positions. I also don't buy that it is the best solution for kids, or even that PCs are necessary for education in all cases.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  Well, and my point has always been, just imagine if you were in a third world country. Imagine being the kid whose never had a computer before. One day this big truck pulls up and you're told you're getting a PC. Then you find that so-called PC either breaks (like yours did) or works but works like a $99 toy from radioshack. That's downright horrifying to imagine from my perspective. (As I'm editing this someone has voted this down to 0. I wonder if that person even cares about the kids the OLPC was supposed to help and if they do why are they willing to forgive the rampant reports of flaws?)
  - msc 17y ago
    I am in a third world country, in fact, I believe our country was the first to buy these laptops. I saw a couple of kids on television getting on Wikipedia with those $99 toys. Those $99 toys are $99 more expensive than any toy they ever had. If said toy breaks, they can take it to a repair center to fix the issues or call in for technical support. I care about the OLPC helping the kids, and I think having these laptops is a vast improvement over (sadly, in some cases) having absolutely nothing. Would you like it better if they didn't get the laptops at all?
jacobolus 17y ago
Mary Lou Jepsen has a list of accomplishments pages long, and is one of the most brilliant people I’ve ever met. You should be careful about tossing around vague inanities like “… usually the ones who have no actual accomplishments …” which aside from sounding pretentious don’t add in the least to the discussion. In any case, I think you misunderstood: this is the projected number of cheap netbook-like laptops which will be sold (that’s between several companies), not the number of XOs, and the numbers are reasonably reliable a year or two out, because they actually have to gear up to manufacturing these things at scale well in advance of making them. I think it’s without question that OLPC and Nicholas’s pushing on the public consciousness, and as importantly on hardware vendors, has sped by at least a few years the pace of cheap laptop production. There really weren’t any sub-$400–500 laptops before Nicholas was talking about them 4–5 years ago, and now there’s an exploding market. Most hardware manufacturers (not to mention pundits and “technologists” and so forth) laughed in his face because they said the margins would be too low to make sense, and the components couldn’t be had for the price. Then at some point he convinced Quanta to jump on board, and everyone started looking really closely. (disclaimer: I spent a year at OLPC as an intern)
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  I note you don't list said accomplishments. Good intentions are not in themselves accomplishments. Sure the media will love you for "creating a $100" computer but if that computer doesn't actually help who you said it would that isn't an accomplishment.. Bottom Line: Defending one's accomplshments by saying they have accomplishments is circular logic If anything I'm more weary of her for using a non-profit to develop technology she's now trying to sell while all the while selling flawed, next to useless computers to poor kids. (I suspect her intentions were good for the record all I'm saying is the facts paint a picture that is suspect)
  - jacobolus 17y ago
    Are you for real? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lou_Jepsen Quoting from there, since it’s easier: “She co-created the first holographic video system in the world at the MIT Media Lab in 1989 [...] At OLPC, notably, Jepsen invented the laptop's sunlight-readable display technology.” You don’t get put in charge of the technology for displays at Intel (her job before OLPC) by being unaccomplished. Here’s a (non-exhaustive, I think) list of her patents: http://www.google.com/patents?q=mary+lou+jepsen&btnG=Search+Patents http://www.google.com/patents?q=mary+lou+jepsen&btnG=Sea... Several of those, like the OLPC dual-mode display, are really clever (better than anything else of the kind, feasible to manufacture on existing fabs, no more expensive than existing displays, etc.). Also, your implication that her involvement with OLPC was “suspiciously” predatory (or for that matter the implication that OLPC on the whole is some kind of exploitative scam) is a cheap insult below the expected level of this forum. Really bright high-level engineer–executives who take out a few years of their careers to work at well below pay grade for non-profit companies trying to change the world should be lauded, in my book.
jcl 17y ago
She's talking not of the OLPC's success but that of netbooks as a whole (which is her current bread-and-butter). 50 million sold in 2009 is conceivable, 25 million is more realistic, given that about five million sold in the first quarter of the year. She is right that without Negroponte there would be no OLPC, and she is also probably correct that without the OLPC's tremendous "$100 laptop" buzz in 2006, there would be no Asus Eee in 2007, which really kicked off the netbook craze. Regarding the discussion of whether computers belong in children's hands, I had the opposite reaction: The idea that each child should have their own laptop computer that they carry with them is still a fairly controversial one, IMHO. Negroponte hardly ended the discussion, but he did serve to legitimize/popularize Seymour Papert's earlier Dynabook proposal.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  I'm sorry but this is just BS. Other than "they're both small" name me all the similarities between the Eee PC and the OLPC. How did a computer sold to kids in third world countries inspire a bunch of middle class Americans to buy netbooks. More over for your theory to be true you have to ignore the constant attempts companies have been making at what is now the netbook market. Everything from the Newton to Microsoft's Handheld PC. Netbooks are flourshing now because technology has gotten to the point where you can fit a full OS on them. It has nothing to do with the OLPC
  - jcl 17y ago
    From a Forbes article on Jonney Shih, CEO of Asus: But around that time, two low-cost notebook models were making waves. Last November tech guru Nicholas Negroponte's One Laptop Per Child, or OLPC, program released its first batch of prototype laptops designed for children in the developing world. And Intel was getting ready to launch a competing laptop, the Classmate PC, for a similar market. So, Shih thought, why not make a small, inexpensive laptop for grown-ups? http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/1112/024a.html http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/1112/024a.html For years prior to the OLPC, we had been able to make a small laptop with a full OS... The OLPC's AMD Geode CPU was seven years old at the time they chose to use it. What none of the manufacturers realized was that there was any sort of market for a vastly underpowered, almost unusably cramped, extremely cheap laptop that attempts to run a full OS. The media buzz created by the OLPC revealed this market.

jcl 17y ago

This is Mary Lou Jepsen, the former CTO of OLPC, apparently weighing in on Ivan Krstic's criticism of Nicholas Negroponte's criticism of the OLPC's original choice of software stack. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=719048 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=719048

thingie 17y ago
And she hardly adds any argument or anything, it's just like "don't touch our brave hero Negroponte, because some of his achievements, completely irrelevant to the software stack and its critisism, which is the discussed problem". (Plus I'm really sick of disgusting pathos of next to the last sentence.)

TrevorJ 17y ago

Am I the only one who thinks that for some children, the last thing they need if for somebody to shove a computer on them? I use computer every single day in my professional and personal life. I love them. But I am eternally grateful to my parents that they didn't give me unlimited access to one till High School. I would have missed out on untold hours of playing outdoors, building things, taking things apart and generally just learning about the world if somebody had shoved a laptop at me when I was 8 or 9.

pmorici 17y ago
That's goes along with a point people often miss. Giving a computer to a child isn't going to automatically impart vast amounts of wisdom. A computer much like a book or a pencil is a tool of learning. The child still has to use it in the right way to learn anything. It's always irked me a bit when people try to pin low achievement in schools on lack of computers.

asciilifeform 17y ago

Is this the same Jepsen who "took the money and ran"? "The money" in this case being the LCD technology she developed - funded by our donations.

jcl 17y ago
The patents have stayed with OLPC. "Pixel Qi -- my new company -- is now licensing my inventions from OLPC. This isn't an OLPC employee benefit, it's a deal I created with OLPC and Pixel Qi, and the benefit will go to OLPC and to the children of the world, lowering the price of the laptops, and thus allowing more kids to get laptops." http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080107182525297 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080107182525297
- asciilifeform 17y ago
  > The patents have stayed with OLPC. This tells us nothing about how they will be licensed. They will be available for free use by the well-connected, but certainly not to you or me.
  - bitwize 17y ago
    Since you and I don't build LCD panels in our spare time, I suppose that may be just as well.
jacobolus 17y ago
No money from donations really went to funding the development of the LCD technology. Mary Lou invented it, and the manufacturer put in the implementation engineering effort. OLPC’s management and development budget was paid for by corporate sponsorships from Google, RedHat, and others. Any of “your” donations were put directly into paying for laptops for children, at cost. Your outrage is misplaced.

cromulent 17y ago

Tremendous effort by Negroponte, to be sure. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford to give my children laptops. For some reason, it doesn't seem important to do so. I guess I just don't get it. Perhaps teaching children to read and giving them access to books is more worthy of effort than giving them laptops. Not as newsworthy or noteworthy though. Anyway, enough of my quibbling. If more of us had the drive and will to make the world a better place that Negroponte has, surely the world would be a better place.