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Wow, there's no doubt there's a desire for this sort of service but what they're asking to get an account rolling is nuts: - Full Legal Name - Full Home Addres

Wow, there's no doubt there's a desire for this sort of service but what they're asking to get an account rolling is nuts: - Full Legal Name - Full Home Address - Social Security Number - Date of Birth - Picture of Govt ID (driver license, etc) How desperate do you have to be to give up this information to an unverified site?

mrb 13y ago
Bitcoinbuilder.com is founded by Josh Jones, the co-founder of DreamHost. You can trust he is legitimate.
- cobrabyte 13y ago
  :) sure. let me just build a site right quick and link to some random person's LinkedIn profile. I bet I could get a good 12 hours of yokels using it before it was remedied. If it's truly Josh Jones of DH, he is not instilling too much confidence. He's even piggy-backing on CloudFlare's SSL... at the very least, he could have opted for an EV SSL that showed that some certifying body truly checked out the individual running the site. This smells scammy... real badly.
  - toomim 13y ago
    Jesus, you guys are paranoid and don't do any research. This site is way legit. I've personally talked with Josh about bitcoinbuilder. See that link at the top for Political Donations? This is the same site that Josh built for Jeremy Hansen's bitcoin-fueled political campaign, which is linked all over the web: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/2517/bitcoin-usage-for-political-donations-expands-to-vermont/ http://bitcoinmagazine.com/2517/bitcoin-usage-for-political-... http://watchdog.org/119342/the-bitcoin-politician-who-wants-to-upgrade-democracy-in-vermont/ http://watchdog.org/119342/the-bitcoin-politician-who-wants-...
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    "some random person's LinkedIn profile" which has 218 connections and explicitly states "Dreamhost" under "Previous" and "Bitcoin Builder" under "Current"? Meanwhile, I'd trust CloudFlare to shut down a scam more than I'd trust any CA to do so. EV certificates are the scam.
    - nwh 13y ago
      Uh, you know that CloudFlare has been used in the past to issue fraudulent unverified SSL certificates, right? That's what happened to Bitcointalk.org, CloudFlare signed a certificate for the domain after it was hijacked so that the attacker could MITM the site. The point is that linking to a LinkedIn profile proves nothing, there needs to be cross-referencing. http://www.linkedin.com/in/tlytle http://www.linkedin.com/in/tlytle See? I'm Larry Page.
      - vertex-four 13y ago
        http://www.linkedin.com/pub/josh-jones/3/91a/44a http://www.linkedin.com/pub/josh-jones/3/91a/44a It does have cross-referencing. See: > Founder at Bitcoin Builder
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        As I already said in the very comment you're replying to, and as vertex-four pointed out again, it is cross-referenced. And several CAs are known to have signed fraudulent SSL certificates. I suspect all of them actually have, but not all have been publicized. If you think this makes CloudFlare less trustworthy than them, I really don't know what to say other than you're crazy.
        nwh 13y ago
        It was meant to be in agreement but incredibly badly written.
  - dirtyaura 13y ago
    Josh has been talking about this on Bitcoin forums, he started running a similar GoxBTC-RealBTC exchange MVP-style with emails and manual processing earlier. And about looking legitimate: Very few cryptocurrency sites look professional. It's fascinating to note how much polish a typical iPhone app needs to succeed, compared how the total lack of polish of cryptocurrency sites doesn't seem to be an issue for users.
  - dminor 13y ago
    > This smells scammy... real badly. It's his site - here he is on CNN talking about it: http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/20/technology/innovation/bitcoin-mtgox/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/20/technology/innovation/bitcoi...
    - cobrabyte 13y ago
      Thanks for the link. I don't know that I would have considered using the site without the vouching of HN users. Oh well, call me paranoid.
  - dlitz 13y ago
    The site has been around for a while. I already had an account on it from last year, because it has a nice tax calculator.
bredren 13y ago
It does seem weird, but it also makes sense. On first glance, this appears to be a type of meta-exchange specific to the circumstance of speculation on Mt. Gox's solvency and actual legitimacy. If this is a serious service, there is reason to require this information to offer legitimacy. Collection of this information is typical of exchanges to follow presumed KYC (know your customer) guidelines for exchange of Bitcoin for fiat. [1] I think this is a very interesting move to claim "Gox" Bitcoin is separate the rest of the Bitcoin market. If you don't follow the Mt. Gox saga closely, you might also be interested to know that one week ago Roger Ver (prominent Bitcoin advocate) offered to purchase Mt. Gox BTC from folks trying to exit that marketplace. [2] From my perspective, some reasonable amount of KYC is necessary to offering a service that does this. I commend Josh for building this. The situation Bitcoin is facing with Mt Gox right now is totally new territory. Bitcoin Builder seems like a creative hack around a real problem in the Bitcoin ecosystem. [1] For example, Bitbox required this information for normal buy / sell orders on their website prior to pause. [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xrmb1/roger_ver_a_prominent_bitcoin_advocate_is_buying/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xrmb1/roger_ver_a_...
dlitz 13y ago
Most Bitcoin exchanges do this now. It's pretty standard anti-money-laundering KYC stuff.
greyfade 13y ago
It's apparently required by US financial services regulations, and Bitcoin services in the US that trade US currency must collect this information. Why, I'm not sure. You'll have to ask FinCen (http://www.fincen.gov/ http://www.fincen.gov/)

mrb 13y ago

Bitcoinbuilder.com is founded by Josh Jones, the co-founder of DreamHost. You can trust he is legitimate.

cobrabyte 13y ago
:) sure. let me just build a site right quick and link to some random person's LinkedIn profile. I bet I could get a good 12 hours of yokels using it before it was remedied. If it's truly Josh Jones of DH, he is not instilling too much confidence. He's even piggy-backing on CloudFlare's SSL... at the very least, he could have opted for an EV SSL that showed that some certifying body truly checked out the individual running the site. This smells scammy... real badly.
- toomim 13y ago
  Jesus, you guys are paranoid and don't do any research. This site is way legit. I've personally talked with Josh about bitcoinbuilder. See that link at the top for Political Donations? This is the same site that Josh built for Jeremy Hansen's bitcoin-fueled political campaign, which is linked all over the web: http://bitcoinmagazine.com/2517/bitcoin-usage-for-political-donations-expands-to-vermont/ http://bitcoinmagazine.com/2517/bitcoin-usage-for-political-... http://watchdog.org/119342/the-bitcoin-politician-who-wants-to-upgrade-democracy-in-vermont/ http://watchdog.org/119342/the-bitcoin-politician-who-wants-...
- nknighthb 13y ago
  "some random person's LinkedIn profile" which has 218 connections and explicitly states "Dreamhost" under "Previous" and "Bitcoin Builder" under "Current"? Meanwhile, I'd trust CloudFlare to shut down a scam more than I'd trust any CA to do so. EV certificates are the scam.
  - nwh 13y ago
    Uh, you know that CloudFlare has been used in the past to issue fraudulent unverified SSL certificates, right? That's what happened to Bitcointalk.org, CloudFlare signed a certificate for the domain after it was hijacked so that the attacker could MITM the site. The point is that linking to a LinkedIn profile proves nothing, there needs to be cross-referencing. http://www.linkedin.com/in/tlytle http://www.linkedin.com/in/tlytle See? I'm Larry Page.
    - vertex-four 13y ago
      http://www.linkedin.com/pub/josh-jones/3/91a/44a http://www.linkedin.com/pub/josh-jones/3/91a/44a It does have cross-referencing. See: > Founder at Bitcoin Builder
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      As I already said in the very comment you're replying to, and as vertex-four pointed out again, it is cross-referenced. And several CAs are known to have signed fraudulent SSL certificates. I suspect all of them actually have, but not all have been publicized. If you think this makes CloudFlare less trustworthy than them, I really don't know what to say other than you're crazy.
      - nwh 13y ago
        It was meant to be in agreement but incredibly badly written.
- dirtyaura 13y ago
  Josh has been talking about this on Bitcoin forums, he started running a similar GoxBTC-RealBTC exchange MVP-style with emails and manual processing earlier. And about looking legitimate: Very few cryptocurrency sites look professional. It's fascinating to note how much polish a typical iPhone app needs to succeed, compared how the total lack of polish of cryptocurrency sites doesn't seem to be an issue for users.
- dminor 13y ago
  > This smells scammy... real badly. It's his site - here he is on CNN talking about it: http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/20/technology/innovation/bitcoin-mtgox/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/20/technology/innovation/bitcoi...
  - cobrabyte 13y ago
    Thanks for the link. I don't know that I would have considered using the site without the vouching of HN users. Oh well, call me paranoid.
- dlitz 13y ago
  The site has been around for a while. I already had an account on it from last year, because it has a nice tax calculator.

bredren 13y ago

It does seem weird, but it also makes sense. On first glance, this appears to be a type of meta-exchange specific to the circumstance of speculation on Mt. Gox's solvency and actual legitimacy. If this is a serious service, there is reason to require this information to offer legitimacy. Collection of this information is typical of exchanges to follow presumed KYC (know your customer) guidelines for exchange of Bitcoin for fiat. [1] I think this is a very interesting move to claim "Gox" Bitcoin is separate the rest of the Bitcoin market. If you don't follow the Mt. Gox saga closely, you might also be interested to know that one week ago Roger Ver (prominent Bitcoin advocate) offered to purchase Mt. Gox BTC from folks trying to exit that marketplace. [2] From my perspective, some reasonable amount of KYC is necessary to offering a service that does this. I commend Josh for building this. The situation Bitcoin is facing with Mt Gox right now is totally new territory. Bitcoin Builder seems like a creative hack around a real problem in the Bitcoin ecosystem. [1] For example, Bitbox required this information for normal buy / sell orders on their website prior to pause. [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xrmb1/roger_ver_a_prominent_bitcoin_advocate_is_buying/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xrmb1/roger_ver_a_...

dlitz 13y ago

Most Bitcoin exchanges do this now. It's pretty standard anti-money-laundering KYC stuff.

greyfade 13y ago

It's apparently required by US financial services regulations, and Bitcoin services in the US that trade US currency must collect this information. Why, I'm not sure. You'll have to ask FinCen (http://www.fincen.gov/ http://www.fincen.gov/)