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Cordova is wonderful if you know how to use it. It allows for cross platform apps with a single codebase. The problem lies in how it is used. Our project tried

Cordova is wonderful if you know how to use it. It allows for cross platform apps with a single codebase. The problem lies in how it is used. Our project tried to incorporate a ton of native UI/UX conventions that screwed us over royally. CSS transitions, layered divs, swipe gestures, all of these were far too complicated for a little phone to handle. Stay away from these, and do simple hides and shows. Or go the hybrid method of having barebones native wrappers and web-views inside of those views. The web (i.e. HTML/CSS/JS) promises a lot but mobile browsers are nowhere near where they should be in terms of pure processing power. As of right now, native is still the way to go.

zalun 13y ago
That really depends on the type of the app and the target device. BTW "the web" is native on Firefox OS.
- camus2 13y ago
  you mean javascript is native on Firefox OS. Firefox OS api =/= web standards.
  - zalun 13y ago
    Well for sure. But it does support vast majority of it.
  - lmorchard 13y ago
    As far as I'm aware, the intent is to develop any non-standard Firefox OS API into a web standard API. Any API that starts out as non-standard on FxOS, starts that way so that it can be shaped to serve practical uses before it gets standardized.
- Pacabel 13y ago
  I really don't buy the "web is native on Firefox OS" argument that you and others make. Architecturally, it's really no different than a PhoneGap or web app running on Android, iOS or BlackBerry OS. They all involve an "app" typically written with HTML+JavaScript, executed in a web browser (often full-screen and without chrome), which in turn runs on an operating system of some sort. If it's "native" on Firefox OS, then why isn't it just as "native" on Android, or iOS, or BlackBerry OS, or other mobile OSes? What I think we really see is Firefox OS totally lacking any sort of real native software development support. This creates the illusion that web apps are somehow "native", when this is just a result of there being no other viable option.
  - lmorchard 13y ago
    Web as native on Firefox OS is not an argument or an illusion. Seriously, no kidding, it's the entire point for the existence of Firefox OS. There will never be access to run native binaries on a Firefox OS device. Web APIs are as close to bare metal that it will ever expose. Seeing that as "totally lacking any sort of real native software development support" misses the whole purpose of the OS, because the web is native on Firefox OS.
lmorchard 13y ago
Yeah, I would say that the problem is the "little phone" hardware moreso than the web tech. I wouldn't be surprised if a "native" (ie. Dalvik) Android app had similar issues on the same hardware.
Mikeb85 13y ago
If you have Android Chrome, open this. Super smooth on Nexus 5 and Chrome... http://helloracer.com/racer-s/ http://helloracer.com/racer-s/
- Jare 13y ago
  There's very little processing power needed for that demo, outside access to the GPU via WebGL for rendering. It's a completely different model from HTML/CSS. And WebGL will not be available for Android WebViews (or iOS ones for that matter) for quite a while yet.
  - frik 13y ago
    It's sad, Google and Apple try protect their walled garden app-stores by all means. Android 4.4+ are based on Chrome/blink for the WebView but they deactivated the hardware acceleration for Canvas2D and removed WebGL support, as well as Web Audio API. [1] iOS 4+ support WebGL in the webkit engine, but it's only enabled for iAds. [2] [1] http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1915-android-44-kitkat-includes-chromium-powered-web-view/ http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1915-android-44-kitkat-in... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL and the related discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7265230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7265230
    - andybak 13y ago
      I don't quite see the argument here. To quote from your link: > Chrome for Android supports a few features which aren't enabled in the WebView, including: If Google was trying to protect the app-store walled-garden - surely that would mean the reverse? Currently in-browser games that bypass the appstore completely have access to more features than native apps?
      - frik 13y ago
        Both companies cripple HTML5 support on their mobile OS. Developers are left with almost no choice but to write native apps for their platform (if they care about execution speed). It fits perfectly in the picture that Apple doesn't allow alternative browser engines. Chrome for iOS just embeds UIWebView and there is no Firefox for the same reason. The JavaScript JIT is disabled for UIWebView, and only enabled for Safari.app. In an ideal world, one could write powerful HTML5 apps that run on Android, iOS, FirefoxOS and desktop browsers. And AppsStores would allow one to add an entry to the apps web URL or at least provide an non-crippled WebView so that one can write a simple wrapper app (or use phonegap/etc).
chebum 13y ago
Have you released your Cordova app? Can we take a look?
- thebokehwokeh2 13y ago
  Not just yet. It'll be on the app store April 1st, assuming it passes Apple's tests.
jchrisa 13y ago
I second that. For mobile the key is to focus on responsiveness not glitz. People open your app for a reason, and hopefully the reason isn't your CSS animations.
nrc 13y ago
I think you underestimate what can be done with bad hardware if the motivation is there - FirefoxOS phones are really bottom end hardware and the UI (app opening, or changing screens, for example) is built using CSS transitions etc. They are just as smooth as native transitions on much more powerful hardware. With a good implementation and a good understanding of exactly when you hit the fast path optimisations you can do wonders. The problem is not with web technology, but with the implementation and use of web technology. Of course, since this is mostly out of the hands of app developers, this doesn't help much. But I think it is important to be blaming the right culprits. (Hopefully we are not too far off bringing these optimisations to Firefox on Android at least, for now they exist only for Firefox OS).
romanovcode 13y ago
I second that. We had to build pretty simple application for iOS and Android and all the swipes and buttons that were animated via css were horribly laggy. Not to mention you have so little control over device itself, only thing you can do is rely on Cordova plugins (which are horrible to begin with). Never again.

zalun 13y ago

That really depends on the type of the app and the target device. BTW "the web" is native on Firefox OS.

camus2 13y ago
you mean javascript is native on Firefox OS. Firefox OS api =/= web standards.
- zalun 13y ago
  Well for sure. But it does support vast majority of it.
- lmorchard 13y ago
  As far as I'm aware, the intent is to develop any non-standard Firefox OS API into a web standard API. Any API that starts out as non-standard on FxOS, starts that way so that it can be shaped to serve practical uses before it gets standardized.
Pacabel 13y ago
I really don't buy the "web is native on Firefox OS" argument that you and others make. Architecturally, it's really no different than a PhoneGap or web app running on Android, iOS or BlackBerry OS. They all involve an "app" typically written with HTML+JavaScript, executed in a web browser (often full-screen and without chrome), which in turn runs on an operating system of some sort. If it's "native" on Firefox OS, then why isn't it just as "native" on Android, or iOS, or BlackBerry OS, or other mobile OSes? What I think we really see is Firefox OS totally lacking any sort of real native software development support. This creates the illusion that web apps are somehow "native", when this is just a result of there being no other viable option.
- lmorchard 13y ago
  Web as native on Firefox OS is not an argument or an illusion. Seriously, no kidding, it's the entire point for the existence of Firefox OS. There will never be access to run native binaries on a Firefox OS device. Web APIs are as close to bare metal that it will ever expose. Seeing that as "totally lacking any sort of real native software development support" misses the whole purpose of the OS, because the web is native on Firefox OS.

lmorchard 13y ago

Yeah, I would say that the problem is the "little phone" hardware moreso than the web tech. I wouldn't be surprised if a "native" (ie. Dalvik) Android app had similar issues on the same hardware.

Mikeb85 13y ago

If you have Android Chrome, open this. Super smooth on Nexus 5 and Chrome... http://helloracer.com/racer-s/ http://helloracer.com/racer-s/

Jare 13y ago
There's very little processing power needed for that demo, outside access to the GPU via WebGL for rendering. It's a completely different model from HTML/CSS. And WebGL will not be available for Android WebViews (or iOS ones for that matter) for quite a while yet.
- frik 13y ago
  It's sad, Google and Apple try protect their walled garden app-stores by all means. Android 4.4+ are based on Chrome/blink for the WebView but they deactivated the hardware acceleration for Canvas2D and removed WebGL support, as well as Web Audio API. [1] iOS 4+ support WebGL in the webkit engine, but it's only enabled for iAds. [2] [1] http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1915-android-44-kitkat-includes-chromium-powered-web-view/ http://www.html5gamedevs.com/topic/1915-android-44-kitkat-in... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL and the related discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7265230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7265230
  - andybak 13y ago
    I don't quite see the argument here. To quote from your link: > Chrome for Android supports a few features which aren't enabled in the WebView, including: If Google was trying to protect the app-store walled-garden - surely that would mean the reverse? Currently in-browser games that bypass the appstore completely have access to more features than native apps?
    - frik 13y ago
      Both companies cripple HTML5 support on their mobile OS. Developers are left with almost no choice but to write native apps for their platform (if they care about execution speed). It fits perfectly in the picture that Apple doesn't allow alternative browser engines. Chrome for iOS just embeds UIWebView and there is no Firefox for the same reason. The JavaScript JIT is disabled for UIWebView, and only enabled for Safari.app. In an ideal world, one could write powerful HTML5 apps that run on Android, iOS, FirefoxOS and desktop browsers. And AppsStores would allow one to add an entry to the apps web URL or at least provide an non-crippled WebView so that one can write a simple wrapper app (or use phonegap/etc).

chebum 13y ago

Have you released your Cordova app? Can we take a look?

thebokehwokeh2 13y ago
Not just yet. It'll be on the app store April 1st, assuming it passes Apple's tests.

jchrisa 13y ago

I second that. For mobile the key is to focus on responsiveness not glitz. People open your app for a reason, and hopefully the reason isn't your CSS animations.

nrc 13y ago

I think you underestimate what can be done with bad hardware if the motivation is there - FirefoxOS phones are really bottom end hardware and the UI (app opening, or changing screens, for example) is built using CSS transitions etc. They are just as smooth as native transitions on much more powerful hardware. With a good implementation and a good understanding of exactly when you hit the fast path optimisations you can do wonders. The problem is not with web technology, but with the implementation and use of web technology. Of course, since this is mostly out of the hands of app developers, this doesn't help much. But I think it is important to be blaming the right culprits. (Hopefully we are not too far off bringing these optimisations to Firefox on Android at least, for now they exist only for Firefox OS).

romanovcode 13y ago

I second that. We had to build pretty simple application for iOS and Android and all the swipes and buttons that were animated via css were horribly laggy. Not to mention you have so little control over device itself, only thing you can do is rely on Cordova plugins (which are horrible to begin with). Never again.