4 ms·

You're supposed to use the pre-tax amount, and doing what is normal, paying 15% of the pre-tax amount, doesn't make you a cheapskate, it makes you normal. You

You're supposed to use the pre-tax amount, and doing what is normal, paying 15% of the pre-tax amount, doesn't make you a cheapskate, it makes you normal. You don't get bonus points for paying extra money to someone you'll likely never see again.

dionidium 13y ago
The difference between 15% and 20% on a $15 bill is 75 cents. The difference between pre- and post-tax is even smaller. You might not get bonus points for ignoring that, but you'll definitely lose points (in my eyes, at least) for fretting about such a small amount of money.
- freehunter 13y ago
  Anyone loses points (in my eyes) for tipping an exact amount regardless of the quality of service. It's a tip, it's supposed to reflect how well you were treated. If you do 18 or 20% no matter what, you're missing the point of tipping. If I'm eating spicy food and my glass is empty for the entire duration of my meal because the server is not paying attention, you're lucky to get a tip at all. I've left 50% tips, I've left no tip, and I've rounded $9.99 to $10 and called that a tip. Anyone working in a restaurant expecting a tip for bare minimum service has my pity, but not my money. You get my money by doing a good job.
  - dionidium 13y ago
    It's a tip, it's supposed to reflect how well you were treated. That may be how the practice started, but that's no longer how it works. I mean, you can clearly tip however little or much you'd like, but, culturally, the tip is nothing more than a formality. And like any formality, you're free to ignore it, but you should be aware that that's what you're doing.
    - kencausey 13y ago
      Excuse me? Where do I apply for the manual on how things work? More seriously, tipping policy is up to the tipper.
      - dionidium 13y ago
        Of course and I said as much. Whether or not to shake the hand of someone you meet is also up to the hand-shaker, but, again, you should just be aware that declining to do so bucks convention. You're talking about what you think tipping should be; I'm talking about what it is.
    - freehunter 13y ago
      The idea of a tip is to compensate service based on quality. If that's not the goal, then the cost should just be integrated into the price of the meal. Since it's not, that means tipping should be reserved for compensating service based on quality. Restaurants are free to set service fees (and many do, "A fee of 18% will be imposed upon parties of 10 or more"), but a tip is still a tip. You give me poor service, you get a poor or nonexistent tip. If the server doesn't like that, then they should provide better service. If the restaurant doesn't like paying their staff to make up the difference between what their wages and minimum wage, they're free to take action against that server (from more training to just firing them). That's the behavior that tips are meant to encourage. Either you're a good server and you make more than minimum wage, or you're a poor server and you don't have a job anymore. That's how the entire economy works. At any rate, a tip is not a formality. If people are treating it as such, I have a problem with that. Either do away with tips and pay the staff what they're worth or make tips based on quality of service.
skywhopper 13y ago
Well, it may depend on where you're eating, but at many restaurants, the wait staff is paid well below the normal minimum wage, and your 15% tip on the pre-tax bill is supposed to make up the difference. And it often does. However, personally, I believe that the minimum wage is far too low, and that wait staff in particular should be paid more than my notional "correct" minimum wage as a base rate. So the way I look at it is that if I had my way and the staff were paid appropriately, the cost of eating at the restaurant would necessarily go up. If I truly believe what I say I believe, then I should be willing to pay more for the same product. And I am. So I do. This is one of just a few areas of American's lives where we have some power over how well the service workers we rely on are paid. And so I tip according to how I believe they should be compensated.
- bluedevil2k 13y ago
  Do you ever bring up your beliefs that the wait staff is underpaid with the management?

dionidium 13y ago

The difference between 15% and 20% on a $15 bill is 75 cents. The difference between pre- and post-tax is even smaller. You might not get bonus points for ignoring that, but you'll definitely lose points (in my eyes, at least) for fretting about such a small amount of money.

freehunter 13y ago
Anyone loses points (in my eyes) for tipping an exact amount regardless of the quality of service. It's a tip, it's supposed to reflect how well you were treated. If you do 18 or 20% no matter what, you're missing the point of tipping. If I'm eating spicy food and my glass is empty for the entire duration of my meal because the server is not paying attention, you're lucky to get a tip at all. I've left 50% tips, I've left no tip, and I've rounded $9.99 to $10 and called that a tip. Anyone working in a restaurant expecting a tip for bare minimum service has my pity, but not my money. You get my money by doing a good job.
- dionidium 13y ago
  It's a tip, it's supposed to reflect how well you were treated. That may be how the practice started, but that's no longer how it works. I mean, you can clearly tip however little or much you'd like, but, culturally, the tip is nothing more than a formality. And like any formality, you're free to ignore it, but you should be aware that that's what you're doing.
  - kencausey 13y ago
    Excuse me? Where do I apply for the manual on how things work? More seriously, tipping policy is up to the tipper.
    - dionidium 13y ago
      Of course and I said as much. Whether or not to shake the hand of someone you meet is also up to the hand-shaker, but, again, you should just be aware that declining to do so bucks convention. You're talking about what you think tipping should be; I'm talking about what it is.
  - freehunter 13y ago
    The idea of a tip is to compensate service based on quality. If that's not the goal, then the cost should just be integrated into the price of the meal. Since it's not, that means tipping should be reserved for compensating service based on quality. Restaurants are free to set service fees (and many do, "A fee of 18% will be imposed upon parties of 10 or more"), but a tip is still a tip. You give me poor service, you get a poor or nonexistent tip. If the server doesn't like that, then they should provide better service. If the restaurant doesn't like paying their staff to make up the difference between what their wages and minimum wage, they're free to take action against that server (from more training to just firing them). That's the behavior that tips are meant to encourage. Either you're a good server and you make more than minimum wage, or you're a poor server and you don't have a job anymore. That's how the entire economy works. At any rate, a tip is not a formality. If people are treating it as such, I have a problem with that. Either do away with tips and pay the staff what they're worth or make tips based on quality of service.

skywhopper 13y ago

Well, it may depend on where you're eating, but at many restaurants, the wait staff is paid well below the normal minimum wage, and your 15% tip on the pre-tax bill is supposed to make up the difference. And it often does. However, personally, I believe that the minimum wage is far too low, and that wait staff in particular should be paid more than my notional "correct" minimum wage as a base rate. So the way I look at it is that if I had my way and the staff were paid appropriately, the cost of eating at the restaurant would necessarily go up. If I truly believe what I say I believe, then I should be willing to pay more for the same product. And I am. So I do. This is one of just a few areas of American's lives where we have some power over how well the service workers we rely on are paid. And so I tip according to how I believe they should be compensated.

bluedevil2k 13y ago
Do you ever bring up your beliefs that the wait staff is underpaid with the management?