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>Actually historically there were numerous instances of largely-homosexual civilizations. Just look up the true story behind the movie 300. This is anecdotal e

>Actually historically there were numerous instances of largely-homosexual civilizations. Just look up the true story behind the movie 300. This is anecdotal evidence. Isolated societies that practice homosexuality do not offer a sound argument against the general trend. Note that you can only think of a few examples. >I think you completely forgot about masturbation, which pretty much destroys that entire line of argument ;) Males "waste" sperm on a constant basis. :) Recall that is is a conversation about bisexuality and homosexual behavior, not homosexuality which is obviously not evolutionarily helpful to a homosexual man (although there are theories that account for the genes that increase the liklihood of homosexuality having an evolutionary advantage for the women that carry them). Evolution is not a boolean question, traits propagate according to their relative success. Men who only want to have sex with women are more likely to deposit more sperm into women than men who deposit sperm wherever it fits. Masturbation would work against both populations. >Actually in many societies men were NOT focused on social interaction with females. I did not say interacting with women. Lots of people interact with women without reproducing. I said 'interfacing,' which was meant as a euphemism for fucking. I will spare you the confusion of further euphemisms. Son, people fuck everywhere.

brenda90210 19y ago
> This is anecdotal evidence. Actually it's well-established. The best-known example is ancient Greece. Here's a general roundup of some historical figures: Socrates, Alexander the Great, Lord Byron, Edward II, Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Michelangelo, Donatello and Christopher Marlowe. > Recall that is is a conversation about bisexuality and homosexual behavior, The conversation is about whatever people discuss. Funny to see you try a dodge when I completely skewer your "sperm is expensive" faux-pas! :) > I said 'interfacing,' which was meant as a euphemism for fucking. Yes, your example is incorrect, as societies in which men were not "highly focused on interfacing with females" still managed to keep the birth rate up. Cf. 300. > not homosexuality which is obviously not evolutionarily helpful to a homosexual man Sure it can be -- especially when it's the norm. It's not even disadvantageous to his genes as long as he's not exclusively homosexual. Even if he were, from his genes' perspective, he can still fulfill a useful role by protecting and benefitting his close kin, who have a lot in common genetically. Homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom. Numerous studies have discovered this surprising result. In humans it persists despite widespread modern cultural condemnation, so it's a bit of a sticky issue. It's not as simple as a blanket "selected for" or "selected against" situation. There's no such thing as universal fitness; just adaptations that are useful in a particular time and place.

brenda90210 19y ago

> This is anecdotal evidence. Actually it's well-established. The best-known example is ancient Greece. Here's a general roundup of some historical figures: Socrates, Alexander the Great, Lord Byron, Edward II, Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Michelangelo, Donatello and Christopher Marlowe. > Recall that is is a conversation about bisexuality and homosexual behavior, The conversation is about whatever people discuss. Funny to see you try a dodge when I completely skewer your "sperm is expensive" faux-pas! :) > I said 'interfacing,' which was meant as a euphemism for fucking. Yes, your example is incorrect, as societies in which men were not "highly focused on interfacing with females" still managed to keep the birth rate up. Cf. 300. > not homosexuality which is obviously not evolutionarily helpful to a homosexual man Sure it can be -- especially when it's the norm. It's not even disadvantageous to his genes as long as he's not exclusively homosexual. Even if he were, from his genes' perspective, he can still fulfill a useful role by protecting and benefitting his close kin, who have a lot in common genetically. Homosexuality is rampant in the animal kingdom. Numerous studies have discovered this surprising result. In humans it persists despite widespread modern cultural condemnation, so it's a bit of a sticky issue. It's not as simple as a blanket "selected for" or "selected against" situation. There's no such thing as universal fitness; just adaptations that are useful in a particular time and place.