5 ms·

Considering what has happened in the last 12 years of global conflict, and the type of truth that has been reveled after-the-fact, it's amazing how many ignoran

Considering what has happened in the last 12 years of global conflict, and the type of truth that has been reveled after-the-fact, it's amazing how many ignorant and absolutely biased people this thread has, all proclaiming the same old "we must support the peace-loving freedom fighters" and "Putin is evil" cliché.

blackhaz 13y ago
Because Putin is evil. He supports an authoritarian regime set by organized crime that kidnaps, tortures and kills people.
- shitgoose 13y ago
  You forgot to mention Bitcoins and child pornography.
- vetinari 13y ago
  He also eats babies for breakfast and in the spare time steals lolipops from small children.
adrenalinup 13y ago
""Putin is evil" cliché" ? That's not a cliché at all. If you're saying that Ukraine == Middle East then you could say that USSR == Middle East. That's not true at all. Russia is crushing nearby countries. Georgia with South Ossetia in 2008. Moldova with Transnistria in 1992. Chechnya. Now they are crushing Ukrainian people for not loving their pro-Russian president.
- dijit 13y ago
  ugh, it comes down to this; Ukraine is in dire straits, their main import is gas from russia, by way of pipelines, which are then collected and exported- they're basing their whole economy on this and it's failing... very soon there wouldn't even be a country.. so, they went to Europe and asked for aid.. Europe said "If you comply with our sanctions on becoming an EU associate (not member) then we'll give you 1billion euros." which, on the scale of a country isn't a whole bunch of cash, and adhering to the sanctions would cost more than that in of itself. Putin said "if you don't join the EU (as an associate, not member) then I'll give you 15 billion euros and 50% off the price of our Russias gas" to me, that sounds like a better long term solution to get the Ukraine out of this problem, and, it sounded like that to the Ukraine government, so they signed the agreement with Putin, however, everyone has heard about the EU, and they're very hopeful they'd be able to join as a member. the Ukraine people have this vision of free travel to other countries and it's clouding their judgment a lot. quite a few things have been signed to admonish the protesters and protect them against legal troubles (at the EU request), but the requirement was that the protests cease.. they took the police aside, and issued a no fire order, but clear the square. They didn't even give the officers guns. Now, people who seem to be there are causing damage and trouble, I'm not even sure they know why they're fighting now, it's certainly not for freedom or the future of their country (as a member of the EU), lets not forget that Turkey has been an EU Associate for 20 years now and seems no closer to being a member state. So military intervention is not to be unexpected. but you're mistaken if you think there is no logic involved in the governments actions.
  - T-zex 13y ago
    Are you seriously suggesting to trade your country for gas?
  - disputin 13y ago
    Clear, objective summary. Appreciated.
spindritf 13y ago
I don't know about the Ukrainian opposition but Putin is pretty evil. And many people who live in countries that used to be a part of the eastern block understand very well why you do not want to find yourself in Kremlin's orbit.
- shitgoose 13y ago
  People from Western Ukraine in Kiev and police are shooting at each other. How is that Putin's and Kremlin's fault? You say you don't know Ukrainian opposition. They are from West of Ukraine. West of Ukraine is notorious for their hatred of Jews and Russians. Hating Jews is not fashionable these days, but there is an open season on Russians. People from West of Ukraine love killing Russians, they don't miss any opportunity, like conflict in Chechnya, where Ukrainians took an active part fighting alongside with Chechens against Russia. West of Ukraine considers East of Ukraine as (1) cattle, (2) slaves and (3) just like Russians but worse. To no surprise, West of Ukraine didn't hesitate to pick up arms and start shooting. They are very passionate bunch. Just watch what will happen when they win (and they will). Central Ukraine will be a blood bath where people will be shot dead for just speaking Russian.
  - spindritf 13y ago
    You say you don't know Ukrainian opposition. They are from West of Ukraine. I'm from Poland. I don't know about the current opposition, I'm aware of Ukrainian nationalists and their history[1]. But for the same reason I also fully sympathize with people who do not want to be in the Russian sphere of influence. It's terrible. Putin is a thug whose regime murders journalists and sends opposition politicians to gulags. As I said, pretty evil. And not hypothetically, perhaps in the future, once he takes over, but really, here and now[2]. Russian empire has always been like that. Behind. And holding back those who were unfortunate to be nearby, too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
    - 13y ago
IgorPartola 13y ago
So what, are the protesters just a bunch of violence loving psychos who are out there for fun? In how many circumstances do citizens take to the streets when the government is doing something perfectly justified? I know of no such accounts in history. Also, please justify Putin's actions. I'd love to hear why he is the good guy in all this.

blackhaz 13y ago

Because Putin is evil. He supports an authoritarian regime set by organized crime that kidnaps, tortures and kills people.

shitgoose 13y ago
You forgot to mention Bitcoins and child pornography.
vetinari 13y ago
He also eats babies for breakfast and in the spare time steals lolipops from small children.

adrenalinup 13y ago

""Putin is evil" cliché" ? That's not a cliché at all. If you're saying that Ukraine == Middle East then you could say that USSR == Middle East. That's not true at all. Russia is crushing nearby countries. Georgia with South Ossetia in 2008. Moldova with Transnistria in 1992. Chechnya. Now they are crushing Ukrainian people for not loving their pro-Russian president.

dijit 13y ago
ugh, it comes down to this; Ukraine is in dire straits, their main import is gas from russia, by way of pipelines, which are then collected and exported- they're basing their whole economy on this and it's failing... very soon there wouldn't even be a country.. so, they went to Europe and asked for aid.. Europe said "If you comply with our sanctions on becoming an EU associate (not member) then we'll give you 1billion euros." which, on the scale of a country isn't a whole bunch of cash, and adhering to the sanctions would cost more than that in of itself. Putin said "if you don't join the EU (as an associate, not member) then I'll give you 15 billion euros and 50% off the price of our Russias gas" to me, that sounds like a better long term solution to get the Ukraine out of this problem, and, it sounded like that to the Ukraine government, so they signed the agreement with Putin, however, everyone has heard about the EU, and they're very hopeful they'd be able to join as a member. the Ukraine people have this vision of free travel to other countries and it's clouding their judgment a lot. quite a few things have been signed to admonish the protesters and protect them against legal troubles (at the EU request), but the requirement was that the protests cease.. they took the police aside, and issued a no fire order, but clear the square. They didn't even give the officers guns. Now, people who seem to be there are causing damage and trouble, I'm not even sure they know why they're fighting now, it's certainly not for freedom or the future of their country (as a member of the EU), lets not forget that Turkey has been an EU Associate for 20 years now and seems no closer to being a member state. So military intervention is not to be unexpected. but you're mistaken if you think there is no logic involved in the governments actions.
- T-zex 13y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting to trade your country for gas?
- disputin 13y ago
  Clear, objective summary. Appreciated.

spindritf 13y ago

I don't know about the Ukrainian opposition but Putin is pretty evil. And many people who live in countries that used to be a part of the eastern block understand very well why you do not want to find yourself in Kremlin's orbit.

shitgoose 13y ago
People from Western Ukraine in Kiev and police are shooting at each other. How is that Putin's and Kremlin's fault? You say you don't know Ukrainian opposition. They are from West of Ukraine. West of Ukraine is notorious for their hatred of Jews and Russians. Hating Jews is not fashionable these days, but there is an open season on Russians. People from West of Ukraine love killing Russians, they don't miss any opportunity, like conflict in Chechnya, where Ukrainians took an active part fighting alongside with Chechens against Russia. West of Ukraine considers East of Ukraine as (1) cattle, (2) slaves and (3) just like Russians but worse. To no surprise, West of Ukraine didn't hesitate to pick up arms and start shooting. They are very passionate bunch. Just watch what will happen when they win (and they will). Central Ukraine will be a blood bath where people will be shot dead for just speaking Russian.
- spindritf 13y ago
  You say you don't know Ukrainian opposition. They are from West of Ukraine. I'm from Poland. I don't know about the current opposition, I'm aware of Ukrainian nationalists and their history[1]. But for the same reason I also fully sympathize with people who do not want to be in the Russian sphere of influence. It's terrible. Putin is a thug whose regime murders journalists and sends opposition politicians to gulags. As I said, pretty evil. And not hypothetically, perhaps in the future, once he takes over, but really, here and now[2]. Russian empire has always been like that. Behind. And holding back those who were unfortunate to be nearby, too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_...
  - 13y ago

IgorPartola 13y ago

So what, are the protesters just a bunch of violence loving psychos who are out there for fun? In how many circumstances do citizens take to the streets when the government is doing something perfectly justified? I know of no such accounts in history. Also, please justify Putin's actions. I'd love to hear why he is the good guy in all this.