6 ms·

I'm amazed to see comment like this. Do you really say that in USA president could beat-out peaceful protest (yes, they started completely peaceful, I was ther

by k_bx 13y ago

I'm amazed to see comment like this. Do you really say that in USA president could beat-out peaceful protest (yes, they started completely peaceful, I was there), and later say "it was done in order to install new-year tree"?

ck2 13y ago
You need to tune into our RNC and DNC conventions every 4 years. These are the two political parties that vote themselves millions of taxpayer funded "security" spending for their conventions in congress. Protesters are beaten and locked up almost immediately, huge "pens" are made to coral them like animals, and recently the new tactic is to make "safe zones" where people are not even allowed near the events anymore. If there was even a hint of weapons being used, our police are heavily militarized now and would not hesitate to shoot someone even holding a smartphone if they thought they could get away with it. Virtually no police are prosecuted in any given year for shooting unarmed people in the USA, happens every week. However what you have in the Ukraine is something I am jealous of, people actually care.
- k_bx 13y ago
  More than 10 people were shot today by snipers. Nothing to be jealous about.
  - usaphp 13y ago
    As far as I heard, the sniper was from the opposition, and he shot police officers, no?
    - k_bx 13y ago
      What? No! Here are people who died from sniper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaMbkoJT2uY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaMbkoJT2uY Here's a medical worker who had been shot https://twitter.com/HromadskeTV/status/436445556664066048/photo/1 https://twitter.com/HromadskeTV/status/436445556664066048/ph... Here's a video of sniper shooting at people: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=570573343039007&set=vb.523004674462541&type=2&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=570573343039007&set=vb....
      - k_bx 13y ago
        UPD: that girl just died :( https://twitter.com/avramchuk_katya/status/436482824720236544 https://twitter.com/avramchuk_katya/status/43648282472023654...
        drdaeman 13y ago
        I've read corrections that she underwent surgery and is still alive. http://espreso.tv/new/2014/02/20/poranena_v_shyyu_volonterka_pomerla http://espreso.tv/new/2014/02/20/poranena_v_shyyu_volonterka... (in Ukrainian)
        k_bx 13y ago
        Yes, just saw that. Best wishes to her.
      - elementai 13y ago
        Why do people on video wear non-military boots, yellow identification stripes, use outdated weapons and can't hold a gun right? I mean with left hand, there are no left-handed versions, especially so old, used rounds will hit user's face. And that "sniper" actually doesn't shoot at all. And leaves only _after_ everybody moved back, leaving him exposed. That's ridiculous.
    - k_bx 13y ago
      Opposition doesn't have any kind of weapon or warriors at all! People are not with opposition, and opposition leaders lost their voice now, noone listens to them. People are too angry.
      - vetinari 13y ago
        Are you sure? From yesterday's news: According to [Ukrainian Security Service head] Yakimenko, “over the last day more than 1,500 firearms and 100,000 rounds of ammunition have come into the hands of criminals.” ... Meanwhile in Ivano-Frankovsk, rioters have seized 268 pistols, 2 rifles, 3 light machine guns, 92 grenades and 15,000 ammunition rounds, the deputy head of the Security Service, Vladimir Porodko, has said, adding that the police are searching for the stolen arms.
        adamnemecek 13y ago
        Are you really quoting the a source that's obviously biased?
        emocakes 13y ago
        no, of course not, I mean, the government is just saying that the weapons have been stolen, so that when they 'massacre' the peaceful protestors, they can point the finger and say, 'but it wasn't us, weapons were stolen'. Seriously.... you watch too much CSI.
        k_bx 13y ago
        Sorry for being not clear enough. I'm not saying protestors don't have weapon. I'm just saying that we shouldn't call them "opposition". Opposition are bunch of politicians that want to do everything peaceful and were never radical. Protestors are separate from opposition.
        rurban 13y ago
        Sure. Ukrainian Security Service hired criminals and led criminals out of jail, gave them weapons and so they went shooting at the protesters. World news (i.e. US, UK and some other state sponsored news services) are still behind Yanukovich, so I wouldn't trust how they are spinning the events.
  - xentronium 13y ago
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - TausAmmer 13y ago
    In all these sniper events, they are all too tricky. Sniper shoots people, people enrage and kill police, snipers kills police, police defends and kills people. Most of the times I am inclined that snipers are 3rd party working for the benefit of pushing around people/police/media.
- trothoun 13y ago
  With the notable exception of 1968 Democratic National Convention[1] I'm having trouble finding any news coverage of multiple injuries at a RNC or DNC. Care to provide references? --- [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Conven...
  - ck2 13y ago
    I didn't mean to imply it was as bad as the Ukraine, but for such a "free country" they don't let people even protest anymore so it never can escalate. There are probably better examples like New Orleans that escape me right now. Also, no-one is allowed near the conventions anymore. So much for freedom of speech unless you want to protest a poor woman going into a health center for an abortion, then be as close as you want. Oh here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Republican_National_Convention#Protests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Republican_National_Conven... Note the pre-emptive arrests a week before the convention. I think we were criticizing China for that behavior.
    - davidw 13y ago
      > I didn't mean to imply it was as bad as the Ukraine Then why did you write this, implying that it's worse in the US: >If this happened in the USA, every single protester (and innocent bystander) would be in jail or dead by now. This is exactly the kind of bullshit hyperbole that makes political discussions on sites like this such a waste of time.
      - happyscrappy 13y ago
        >Then why did you write this Because he knew it would be massively up voted. The maturity level on this site, at least with political stuff, is very low.
      - ck2 13y ago
        You are confusing two points of mine, or I didn't explain properly. In the US if it got to that level, everyone would be in jail or dead. In the US they would never let it get to that level. Police would not just stand by a peaceful protest without permits. They sure as hell would never let people occupy a government building, even peacefully. They would insert people to make it violent and then start arresting people, at the first sign of weapons, you'd start seeing some massive escalation. If fires were being set on that level the national guard would come in fully armed. So we are fortunate in that it has not escalated like the Ukraine. But if it did, make no mistake, the US would be giving other countries lessons in brutality. Our police are completely militarized. They even have tanks now decommissioned from overseas wars. People just do not realize this, or they do not care. But what is really scary is you do not sit on that kind of weapons and not use them, it would be like giving a police officer a taser or gallons of pepper spray and being surprised when they constantly use it.
kushti 13y ago
It was no peaceful protest since main state square's squatting. Illegal squatting of public properties is prohibited in US/EU, in UA too, I guess.
- iamwithnail 13y ago
  Illegal does not mean violent.
  - kushti 13y ago
    Illegal means "should be stopped by legal power. AFAIK there's no doubts in previous elections results, so Yanukovich is legal power and had to stop illegal squatting(feel the difference with Russia/arabic countries where were serious doubts whether power is legl or not).
    - 6d0debc071 13y ago
      > Illegal means "should be stopped by legal power." It means that perhaps it will be. I think beyond that you'll find there are varying opinions on whether it's a moral imperative to enforce the law all the time, or whether there should be a degree of discretion exercised in doing so.
    - john_b 13y ago
      You are conflating "illegal" with "immoral", which is perhaps the most dangerous and most common political fallacy today. Laws can be changed, sometimes arbitrarily or to serve corrupt interests. If your morality changes with the laws your politicians impose upon you then you are little more than a serf.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  What Gandhi did was both peaceful and illegal. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
  - kushti 13y ago

by k_bx 13y ago

ck2 13y ago

You need to tune into our RNC and DNC conventions every 4 years. These are the two political parties that vote themselves millions of taxpayer funded "security" spending for their conventions in congress. Protesters are beaten and locked up almost immediately, huge "pens" are made to coral them like animals, and recently the new tactic is to make "safe zones" where people are not even allowed near the events anymore. If there was even a hint of weapons being used, our police are heavily militarized now and would not hesitate to shoot someone even holding a smartphone if they thought they could get away with it. Virtually no police are prosecuted in any given year for shooting unarmed people in the USA, happens every week. However what you have in the Ukraine is something I am jealous of, people actually care.

k_bx 13y ago
More than 10 people were shot today by snipers. Nothing to be jealous about.
- usaphp 13y ago
  As far as I heard, the sniper was from the opposition, and he shot police officers, no?
  - k_bx 13y ago
    What? No! Here are people who died from sniper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaMbkoJT2uY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaMbkoJT2uY Here's a medical worker who had been shot https://twitter.com/HromadskeTV/status/436445556664066048/photo/1 https://twitter.com/HromadskeTV/status/436445556664066048/ph... Here's a video of sniper shooting at people: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=570573343039007&set=vb.523004674462541&type=2&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=570573343039007&set=vb....
    - k_bx 13y ago
      UPD: that girl just died :( https://twitter.com/avramchuk_katya/status/436482824720236544 https://twitter.com/avramchuk_katya/status/43648282472023654...
      - drdaeman 13y ago
        I've read corrections that she underwent surgery and is still alive. http://espreso.tv/new/2014/02/20/poranena_v_shyyu_volonterka_pomerla http://espreso.tv/new/2014/02/20/poranena_v_shyyu_volonterka... (in Ukrainian)
        k_bx 13y ago
        Yes, just saw that. Best wishes to her.
    - elementai 13y ago
      Why do people on video wear non-military boots, yellow identification stripes, use outdated weapons and can't hold a gun right? I mean with left hand, there are no left-handed versions, especially so old, used rounds will hit user's face. And that "sniper" actually doesn't shoot at all. And leaves only _after_ everybody moved back, leaving him exposed. That's ridiculous.
  - k_bx 13y ago
    Opposition doesn't have any kind of weapon or warriors at all! People are not with opposition, and opposition leaders lost their voice now, noone listens to them. People are too angry.
    - vetinari 13y ago
      Are you sure? From yesterday's news: According to [Ukrainian Security Service head] Yakimenko, “over the last day more than 1,500 firearms and 100,000 rounds of ammunition have come into the hands of criminals.” ... Meanwhile in Ivano-Frankovsk, rioters have seized 268 pistols, 2 rifles, 3 light machine guns, 92 grenades and 15,000 ammunition rounds, the deputy head of the Security Service, Vladimir Porodko, has said, adding that the police are searching for the stolen arms.
      - adamnemecek 13y ago
        Are you really quoting the a source that's obviously biased?
        emocakes 13y ago
        no, of course not, I mean, the government is just saying that the weapons have been stolen, so that when they 'massacre' the peaceful protestors, they can point the finger and say, 'but it wasn't us, weapons were stolen'. Seriously.... you watch too much CSI.
      - k_bx 13y ago
        Sorry for being not clear enough. I'm not saying protestors don't have weapon. I'm just saying that we shouldn't call them "opposition". Opposition are bunch of politicians that want to do everything peaceful and were never radical. Protestors are separate from opposition.
      - rurban 13y ago
        Sure. Ukrainian Security Service hired criminals and led criminals out of jail, gave them weapons and so they went shooting at the protesters. World news (i.e. US, UK and some other state sponsored news services) are still behind Yanukovich, so I wouldn't trust how they are spinning the events.
- xentronium 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DxkDiAcSF8
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- TausAmmer 13y ago
  In all these sniper events, they are all too tricky. Sniper shoots people, people enrage and kill police, snipers kills police, police defends and kills people. Most of the times I am inclined that snipers are 3rd party working for the benefit of pushing around people/police/media.
trothoun 13y ago
With the notable exception of 1968 Democratic National Convention[1] I'm having trouble finding any news coverage of multiple injuries at a RNC or DNC. Care to provide references? --- [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Conven...
- ck2 13y ago
  I didn't mean to imply it was as bad as the Ukraine, but for such a "free country" they don't let people even protest anymore so it never can escalate. There are probably better examples like New Orleans that escape me right now. Also, no-one is allowed near the conventions anymore. So much for freedom of speech unless you want to protest a poor woman going into a health center for an abortion, then be as close as you want. Oh here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Republican_National_Convention#Protests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Republican_National_Conven... Note the pre-emptive arrests a week before the convention. I think we were criticizing China for that behavior.
  - davidw 13y ago
    > I didn't mean to imply it was as bad as the Ukraine Then why did you write this, implying that it's worse in the US: >If this happened in the USA, every single protester (and innocent bystander) would be in jail or dead by now. This is exactly the kind of bullshit hyperbole that makes political discussions on sites like this such a waste of time.
    - happyscrappy 13y ago
      >Then why did you write this Because he knew it would be massively up voted. The maturity level on this site, at least with political stuff, is very low.
    - ck2 13y ago
      You are confusing two points of mine, or I didn't explain properly. In the US if it got to that level, everyone would be in jail or dead. In the US they would never let it get to that level. Police would not just stand by a peaceful protest without permits. They sure as hell would never let people occupy a government building, even peacefully. They would insert people to make it violent and then start arresting people, at the first sign of weapons, you'd start seeing some massive escalation. If fires were being set on that level the national guard would come in fully armed. So we are fortunate in that it has not escalated like the Ukraine. But if it did, make no mistake, the US would be giving other countries lessons in brutality. Our police are completely militarized. They even have tanks now decommissioned from overseas wars. People just do not realize this, or they do not care. But what is really scary is you do not sit on that kind of weapons and not use them, it would be like giving a police officer a taser or gallons of pepper spray and being surprised when they constantly use it.

kushti 13y ago

It was no peaceful protest since main state square's squatting. Illegal squatting of public properties is prohibited in US/EU, in UA too, I guess.

iamwithnail 13y ago
Illegal does not mean violent.
- kushti 13y ago
  Illegal means "should be stopped by legal power. AFAIK there's no doubts in previous elections results, so Yanukovich is legal power and had to stop illegal squatting(feel the difference with Russia/arabic countries where were serious doubts whether power is legl or not).
  - 6d0debc071 13y ago
    > Illegal means "should be stopped by legal power." It means that perhaps it will be. I think beyond that you'll find there are varying opinions on whether it's a moral imperative to enforce the law all the time, or whether there should be a degree of discretion exercised in doing so.
  - john_b 13y ago
    You are conflating "illegal" with "immoral", which is perhaps the most dangerous and most common political fallacy today. Laws can be changed, sometimes arbitrarily or to serve corrupt interests. If your morality changes with the laws your politicians impose upon you then you are little more than a serf.
guard-of-terra 13y ago
What Gandhi did was both peaceful and illegal. Those aren't mutually exclusive.
- kushti 13y ago