4 ms·

How much red tape is there if one wants to cross an international border?

bergie 13y ago
Generally, not much. You need to file a flight plan, which is essentially just telling the ATC where you're going, and where you're coming from. The flight plan is also useful in case you get into trouble, since it contains the identifying information for your plane, the number of people on board, and for instance the safety equipment on board. So if you crash, the search-and-rescue people know what to expect. Depending on the system the place you're flying to uses, filing the plan might be filling a web form. At least in Finland you could also do that via a phone call or with radio. If there are customs and passport formalities between the countries you travel to, you will need to taxi your plane to a 'customs control' parking lot on the airport so that the customs people can check it. On some small airports this may require alerting them ahead of time so that they'll actually be there. You probably also have to have a radio and a transponder on the airplane. Between some countries, like the EU/Schengen area, flying between countries is pretty much the same as flying inside a country. So the requirements mostly depend on airspace restrictions in the area you fly. Between other countries things may vary. For example, back then I was told that it is quite impossible to fly from Finland to Russia since there was essentially no GA in Russia. (disclaimer: it has been nearly 10 years since I flew last time, so some of this may be incorrect or outdated)
- chiph 13y ago
  > since there was essentially no GA in Russia. Other than Mathias Rust? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
sokoloff 13y ago
I've done it US-Canada, and entering Canada was an absolute pleasure and smooth experience; coming back into the US has become much more hassle (and I'm a US citizen, flying an N-reg [US] airplane). That was before 9/11 and Homeland Security. Now, entering the US is much more aggravating and "tense". It's not so much that there's lots of red tape, but that the entire experience I perceive as unfriendly and waiting to spring a $5000 fine of you for missing some timing deadline by a few minutes or for having the paperwork innocently imperfectly filled out. There's also a sense of discoordination. You have to file electronically, and then call the customs office on the phone, giving them a small window for your arrival. You used to just be able to have ATC advise customs of your ETA. It's to the point where when I need to go to Windsor, Canada, I will often overfly the Windsor airport, cross back into the US, land at Detroit (either Metro or City airport) and rent a car to drive back into Canada. If I just overfly Canada but takeoff and land in the US, it's still a domestic flight and I avoid all the hassle. I'm sure if I did it more often that it would become routine and seem less arcane and fraught with peril, but I only have occassion to do it a couple times per year, max, and Detroit is really close to Windsor anyway, so it'll stay a mystery for me until I go island hopping the Carribean. That's where a rental car from San Juan, PR or Miami doesn't work as a substitute for a border-crossing.
leetrout 13y ago
In the US- as far as the FAA and pilot & plane are concerned you need all of your required documentation AND a radio operators license.
tjmc 13y ago
None if you don't land! I used to fly into US airspace out of Boundary Bay airport - just south of Vancouver. There's actually no immigration or customs requirement at all if you don't land the thing on the other side of the border.

Generally, not much. You need to file a flight plan, which is essentially just telling the ATC where you're going, and where you're coming from. The flight plan is also useful in case you get into trouble, since it contains the identifying information for your plane, the number of people on board, and for instance the safety equipment on board. So if you crash, the search-and-rescue people know what to expect. Depending on the system the place you're flying to uses, filing the plan might be filling a web form. At least in Finland you could also do that via a phone call or with radio. If there are customs and passport formalities between the countries you travel to, you will need to taxi your plane to a 'customs control' parking lot on the airport so that the customs people can check it. On some small airports this may require alerting them ahead of time so that they'll actually be there. You probably also have to have a radio and a transponder on the airplane. Between some countries, like the EU/Schengen area, flying between countries is pretty much the same as flying inside a country. So the requirements mostly depend on airspace restrictions in the area you fly. Between other countries things may vary. For example, back then I was told that it is quite impossible to fly from Finland to Russia since there was essentially no GA in Russia. (disclaimer: it has been nearly 10 years since I flew last time, so some of this may be incorrect or outdated)

chiph 13y ago
> since there was essentially no GA in Russia. Other than Mathias Rust? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust

sokoloff 13y ago

I've done it US-Canada, and entering Canada was an absolute pleasure and smooth experience; coming back into the US has become much more hassle (and I'm a US citizen, flying an N-reg [US] airplane). That was before 9/11 and Homeland Security. Now, entering the US is much more aggravating and "tense". It's not so much that there's lots of red tape, but that the entire experience I perceive as unfriendly and waiting to spring a $5000 fine of you for missing some timing deadline by a few minutes or for having the paperwork innocently imperfectly filled out. There's also a sense of discoordination. You have to file electronically, and then call the customs office on the phone, giving them a small window for your arrival. You used to just be able to have ATC advise customs of your ETA. It's to the point where when I need to go to Windsor, Canada, I will often overfly the Windsor airport, cross back into the US, land at Detroit (either Metro or City airport) and rent a car to drive back into Canada. If I just overfly Canada but takeoff and land in the US, it's still a domestic flight and I avoid all the hassle. I'm sure if I did it more often that it would become routine and seem less arcane and fraught with peril, but I only have occassion to do it a couple times per year, max, and Detroit is really close to Windsor anyway, so it'll stay a mystery for me until I go island hopping the Carribean. That's where a rental car from San Juan, PR or Miami doesn't work as a substitute for a border-crossing.

leetrout 13y ago

In the US- as far as the FAA and pilot & plane are concerned you need all of your required documentation AND a radio operators license.

tjmc 13y ago

None if you don't land! I used to fly into US airspace out of Boundary Bay airport - just south of Vancouver. There's actually no immigration or customs requirement at all if you don't land the thing on the other side of the border.