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I'm sorry, but AGI vs Alchemy is a poor analogy with almost no parallels. I see this as a rather blatant strawman argument. Flying machines vs AGI makes a much
by electrograv 13y ago
I'm sorry, but AGI vs Alchemy is a poor analogy with almost no parallels. I see this as a rather blatant strawman argument.
Flying machines vs AGI makes a much better analogy. Natural flying machines (birds) existed in nature, before artificial ones (planes) were invented. Artificial manned flight was speculated as a possibility for centuries with no macroscopic working examples, and heavily criticized as a transportational panacea/fantasy that was seen as clearly impossible to people at the time.
In fact, the analogy extends startlingly far. People doubted the possibility of manned flying machines for the longest time, with arguments strikingly similar to yours, e.g. 'We have no proof that such artificial flying contraptions can exist!'. Explaining away natural flight as a supernatural magic only accessible to birds is also eerily similar to the constantly retreating dualistic arguments against a mechanical brain.
Even your criticisms of current AI has analogues[2]. Long ago, even in ancient times, there is evidence of small "toy" birds that might have flown much like paper planes. Many similar toy examples existed around the 19th/20th century, too, yet many people still vigorously doubted the possibility of a flying machine that could carry a human.
Let's compare a paraphrase of common arguments against heavier-than-air human flight, with a paraphrase of your argument:
Of course we have natural examples of flight, as we see birds all around us. But there is no more evidence for human flight than there is for Bigfoot, leprechauns or space aliens. Sure, we have little toy examples of flying machines, but they're very limited -- the idea of full heavier-than-air human flight requires a leap of faith.
Vs.
[Of course we have natural examples of AI, I, the author presumably am one.] But there is no more evidence for AGI than there is for Bigfoot, leprechauns or space aliens. Sure, we have little toy examples of AI, but they're very limited -- the idea of full AGI requires a leap of faith.
[1] (Obviously I'm not referring to fusion or anything like that, because people of that era wouldn't have recognized that as transmutation.)
[2] To be fair, I think it's safe to say old-school non-probabilistic AI is dead. But just because one path ends doesn't mean there aren't a thousand others constantly exploring new ideas. Indeed, recent advances in deep learning are incredibly promising.
- querious 13y agoThe question that comes up for me at this point is whether there is much that is dispensable about humans when it comes to exhibiting intelligent behavior (running on 100 watts, no less). It turned out that for abstracting useful flight dynamics based on birds, there was a rather simple rule: lift > weight. Sure, reducing it to that simple formula may not help you build a machine that maneuvers as well as birds and insects do, but we didn't need that for flight. We just wanted to cross an ocean in less than 6 weeks. Whether the flight analogy carries on to intelligence, in my mind, depends on how many of our subsystems are 1) indispensable for intelligence, and 2) reasonably computationally reducible. From neurotransmitters to ganglia cells to hormones and bacteria in the gut, we have found a lot of subsystems that contribute to our abilities to make diverse, everyday decisions that the ideal AI we are discussing would have to make. The cortex actually seems like one of the most orderly and therefore reducible parts of the apparatus. The hormonal system that regulates emotion based decision making may be far more difficult to abstract and less efficient to model. And there are many many other systems. Could it be that without details of those subsystems, our AI behaves in less than optimal ways the same way a human would? How much can we get away with reducing biology to simpler rules while maintaining general intelligence? It is possible I suppose that all those biological dependencies are merely hampering an ideal algorithm for generalized intelligence that we are only crude approximations of, a powerful and simple algorithm we can finally free of biological constraints, -- but it's too late to get into the probability of that hypothesis! In any case it's not clear to me how that kind of nonhuman intelligence would serve us.
- loup-vaillant 13y agoYou're falling into the same naturalistic fallacy the likes of Clement Ader fell into: thinking you had to imitate nature to get flight (or AI) done. I trust the underlying principles of intelligence are much simpler than current implementations. It's probably not going to be easy, tough.