> hosh> Thoughts arise from emotions Not according to the theory behind one of the most effective psychotherapies we have available today [1], CBT. In the cog

> hosh> Thoughts arise from emotions Not according to the theory behind one of the most effective psychotherapies we have available today [1], CBT. In the cognitive theory of behaviour, thoughts drive emotions; emotions drive behaviour, the consequences of which drive further thought, thereby creating a feedback loop. Thoughts are based upon beliefs; distorted beliefs lead to distorted thinking and distorted actions. Thought-directed self-help would be directed towards resolving these distorted beliefs. So "Positive thinking" can mean different things to different people. This article seems to be discussing a definition I would prefer to label somewhere between "wishful thinking" and "the lazy person's effortless alternative to diligent-self-help-practice that just may work if you're lucky enough to independently rediscover proven self-help techniques indirectly as a consequence of your raised consciousness, or through dumb luck". In the framework of diligent-self-help-practice, "positive thinking" can be considered as a subset of "rational thinking". CBT, for instance, acknowledges that there are often different ways to view any given situation, and that there is no single "right way". Your personal beliefs will determine which perspective you take, and therefore what emotions you will feel (and consequently what your ultimate behaviour will be). Many people are not aware of the beliefs driving their thought processes, or do not believe that beliefs are malleable, and consequently have a blind spot towards solving their problems. > benched> I just don't go out of my way to see the bright side, or try in a motivated way to hit positive notes while conversing The belief that hosh and benched appear to share - that they're just "stating the facts" for everybody else - can, from the perspective that beliefs are malleable, be seen as an unnecessarily self-limiting view of the world. For instance - let's say you've just been convicted of murder and will serve a life sentence without the possibility of parole in some hellhole. Sure, you could just "state the facts". That may lead to saying to yourself, matter of factly, "well I've just destroyed all my chances of X!". And if you believed X is the most important thing in the world to you, with this thought brought upon by your belief you may find yourself feeling suddenly very depressed at the loss of X. Now: some people accept that this is a perfectly valid perspective, but not a particularly helpful one. "Positive thinking" in this context means finding a more helpful belief to drive a more constructive perspective. Because whatever is going to happen in that hellhole is going to happen; unless you choose suicide, the best chance you can give your sanity is to give life a meaning invulnerable to what's going to happen [2]. Of course all of this is easier said than done. I'm damn sure if I were ever in this situation I would struggle very much to think positively. I do think I'd have a big advantage of coming to a constructive solution over the guy next to me who hadn't been practising positive thinking, though. A good part of CBT is helping people find and change toward more empowering beliefs but in practice our beliefs are often tightly coupled together in the worst imaginable tangle of ropes, requiring significant insight and diligence to untangle and restructure a working solution, like refactoring in-memory a production system that has been continuously developed on the wrong foundation for 20, 30, 40 or more years. Perhaps some people can sense the cognitive dissonance (that a new belief will interfere with an existing belief) but not how to resolve it (usually the introduction and/or refinement of other deeply held beliefs), and become disillusioned with the process, preferring instead to label themselves as just "stating the facts" ;) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy#Evaluation_of_effectiveness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy#Ev... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy