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Facebook suddenly acquired the world's (if we exclude the US and China) most popular messaging service. I communicate with this app with all my friends, and sha

by huskyr 13y ago

Facebook suddenly acquired the world's (if we exclude the US and China) most popular messaging service. I communicate with this app with all my friends, and share stuff that i have no intention of ever putting on Facebook. Everything that once seemed 'private' is now in the hands of a website that forces it users to share as much as possible with marketeers and advertising companies. It's gonna be one tough mission for FB to convince WhatsApp users they're not gonna be playing around with their data. If there's one moment to launch an email-like distributed protocol and app for instant messaging (and somehow convince all my friends to use it), i guess it's now.

johngalt 13y ago
The closest option is XMPP. Unfortunately it's suffered an extreme case of scope creep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP
- mahyarm 13y ago
  And it's shit for mobile.
  - huskyr 13y ago
    I guess that's why WhatsApp uses it ;)
    - mahyarm 13y ago
      Trust me, they've modified it heavily by now and probably use a bunch of side services that don't use it fully. It's a common pattern in messaging startups. Use XMPP, find out ejabberd is the half-decent one, migrate slowly away from XMPP eventually. Facebook had a similar trajectory.
  - teacup50 13y ago
    It's no more shit for mobile than the HTTP+JSON "protocols" people ship every day.
- shmerl 13y ago
  Whatsapp uses XMPP for the reference. However they modified the protocol to be incompatible (on purpose) and it's not federated obviously.
  - johngalt 13y ago
    It's accurate to describe the XMPP standard as 'used' by many but 'supported' by few.
JetSpiegel 13y ago
"(if we exclude the US and China)" That's at least half of the world, if not in users, at least in revenue. What the hell!
- sentenza 13y ago
  Less than half. Europe and India easily make up for the US and China and then you still have South- and Middle America as well as South-East Asia (and Africa).
  - JetSpiegel 13y ago
    Perhaps. But the US and China are mostly isotropic* markets, it's easier to control them than all the different European countries. *for lack of a better word
gedrap 13y ago
>>> It's gonna be one tough mission for FB to convince WhatsApp users they're not gonna be playing around with their data. It's much less relevant if you step outside the HN.
- dinkumthinkum 13y ago
  I don't know if that's true. How do you explain the success of WhatsApp when FB exists?
  - gedrap 13y ago
    Well, do you really think a regular person will care a lot about storing data? Ok, maybe after Snowden's leaks they will give a second thought about sharing intimate pictures but other than that... For us, HNers, it's hard to understand 'a regular person' because we are far from. Speaking of reasons, I would say doing one thing and doing it well. After FB has invested all that money, their messenger app is still behind. Sync issue was a big one. Up until recently, FB messages wouldn't reach my phone or they would reach hours after being sent. And I don't live in a forest in Africa. Second, I find the UX poor. It's hard to point out but using e.g. WhatsApp just feels more... natural. Don't know why. Also, I think the fact that your phone book is the first class citizen is a big one. You don't need to add, confirm anything. It's just already there. And that makes a perfect sense. If you have a phone book with all the contacts, why would you need a new list of contacts. Basically, WhatsApp is just SMS on steroids. Taking a proven technology and improving it. That's also innovation.
    - dinkumthinkum 13y ago
      I think people care more about it than you think and the long term is they will care more. It's not just needs that talk about "FB stalking" or think LinkedIn is creepy.
- eevilspock 13y ago
  Really? Read the WhatsApp founder's blog: http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/06/why-we-dont-sell-ads/ http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/06/why-we-dont-sell-...
kamaal 13y ago
>>It's gonna be one tough mission for FB to convince WhatsApp users they're not gonna be playing around with their data. 99% of the WhatsApp users won't even know FB acquired WhatsApp. The half of remaining 1% don't really care about their data.

by huskyr 13y ago

johngalt 13y ago

The closest option is XMPP. Unfortunately it's suffered an extreme case of scope creep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP

mahyarm 13y ago
And it's shit for mobile.
- huskyr 13y ago
  I guess that's why WhatsApp uses it ;)
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    Trust me, they've modified it heavily by now and probably use a bunch of side services that don't use it fully. It's a common pattern in messaging startups. Use XMPP, find out ejabberd is the half-decent one, migrate slowly away from XMPP eventually. Facebook had a similar trajectory.
- teacup50 13y ago
  It's no more shit for mobile than the HTTP+JSON "protocols" people ship every day.
shmerl 13y ago
Whatsapp uses XMPP for the reference. However they modified the protocol to be incompatible (on purpose) and it's not federated obviously.
- johngalt 13y ago
  It's accurate to describe the XMPP standard as 'used' by many but 'supported' by few.

JetSpiegel 13y ago

"(if we exclude the US and China)" That's at least half of the world, if not in users, at least in revenue. What the hell!

sentenza 13y ago
Less than half. Europe and India easily make up for the US and China and then you still have South- and Middle America as well as South-East Asia (and Africa).
- JetSpiegel 13y ago
  Perhaps. But the US and China are mostly isotropic* markets, it's easier to control them than all the different European countries. *for lack of a better word

gedrap 13y ago

>>> It's gonna be one tough mission for FB to convince WhatsApp users they're not gonna be playing around with their data. It's much less relevant if you step outside the HN.

dinkumthinkum 13y ago
I don't know if that's true. How do you explain the success of WhatsApp when FB exists?
- gedrap 13y ago
  Well, do you really think a regular person will care a lot about storing data? Ok, maybe after Snowden's leaks they will give a second thought about sharing intimate pictures but other than that... For us, HNers, it's hard to understand 'a regular person' because we are far from. Speaking of reasons, I would say doing one thing and doing it well. After FB has invested all that money, their messenger app is still behind. Sync issue was a big one. Up until recently, FB messages wouldn't reach my phone or they would reach hours after being sent. And I don't live in a forest in Africa. Second, I find the UX poor. It's hard to point out but using e.g. WhatsApp just feels more... natural. Don't know why. Also, I think the fact that your phone book is the first class citizen is a big one. You don't need to add, confirm anything. It's just already there. And that makes a perfect sense. If you have a phone book with all the contacts, why would you need a new list of contacts. Basically, WhatsApp is just SMS on steroids. Taking a proven technology and improving it. That's also innovation.
  - dinkumthinkum 13y ago
    I think people care more about it than you think and the long term is they will care more. It's not just needs that talk about "FB stalking" or think LinkedIn is creepy.
eevilspock 13y ago
Really? Read the WhatsApp founder's blog: http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/06/why-we-dont-sell-ads/ http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/06/why-we-dont-sell-...

kamaal 13y ago

>>It's gonna be one tough mission for FB to convince WhatsApp users they're not gonna be playing around with their data. 99% of the WhatsApp users won't even know FB acquired WhatsApp. The half of remaining 1% don't really care about their data.