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Redesigned Python.org
- thethomaseffect 13y agoI thought I'd find a ton of comments about how awful it is, surprised. More than one part of the page strained my eyes to read. The code samples and success stories are the worst. Websites are made to be read, if you make that hard you've failed at design. Needs to be a lot simpler. If this stuff was fixed it'd be awesome though
- jnoller 13y agoCould you help us out by filing tickets/Etc? https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg
- piokuc 13y agoThere is a bug on the front page: >>> print 'Hello, I'm Python!' File "<stdin>", line 1 print 'Hello, I'm Python!' ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax >>>
- frankwiles 13y agoNice catch! Fixed and will go live in a bit.
- ionelm 13y agoCan you fix this too http://awesomescreenshot.com/0432do7d8f http://awesomescreenshot.com/0432do7d8f ?
- jonalmeida 13y agoThe mouse over CSS is a flattened look which is (IMO) very ugly with the embossed default.
- est 13y agoWhy not support both 2.x and 3.x syntax? print ("Hello, I'm Python!")
- mkesper 13y agoPlease no, this is confusing.
- rbanffy 13y agoI'm not really happy with the loop example. There is a sum function precisely for that.
- timw6n 13y ago...and a python 2 print keyword instead of the python 3 print function.
- lelandbatey 13y agoThere are a bunch of these. There's the Python 2 specific string formatting as well: # Input, assignment >>> name = input('What is your name?\n') >>> print 'Hi, %s.' % name Why so Python 2 specific? Why not Python 3? : (
- koenigdavidmj 13y agoHowever, they also used an example showing that integer division returns a float, which is a behaviour specific to Python 3.
- cma 13y agoNot completely, this has been available in python 2 for a long time: >>> from __future__ import division
- alcari 13y ago%-based string interpolation still works in python 3.
- lelandbatey 13y agoHuh, you're right. I could have sworn it was taken out in favor of '.format'; I wonder where I got that idea from...?
- rafekett 13y agoI believe they were going to but were met with stern resistance from the community and caved.
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- jnoller 13y agoBug me please! I linked to the repo everywhere else :)
- agumonkey 13y agoi'm missing something here, archive.org show no differences : present http://web.archive.org/web/20140219035142/http://python.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20140219035142/http://python.org/ past http://web.archive.org/web/20131130224018/http://python.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20131130224018/http://python.org/ update : http://preview.python.org/ http://preview.python.org/ in case you see the old update 2: Am I the only one to want a (js based client side) repl + tutorial and side docs as the basis of any language website ? the new layout is a bit lighter than the old, but it looks like they're selling cookies. Sorry to be ranty.
- thearn4 13y agoNice redesign. It'd be neat if that panel of code was a live REPL.
- frankwiles 13y agoIt will be!
- gpjt 13y agoYup :-) The repl will be going live later on today.
- gpjt 13y ago...and it's live.
- thearn4 13y agoJust checked it out. Has numpy, matplotlib, and a few other packages too. Nice!
- gpjt 13y agoYup. Full list of included packages here: https://www.pythonanywhere.com/batteries_included/#a_python33 https://www.pythonanywhere.com/batteries_included/#a_python3...
- thearn4 13y agoAwesome!
- amirmc 13y agoPrevious discussion (when this design previewed): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5389656 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5389656
- jpulec 13y agohttp://www.python.org/admin/ http://www.python.org/admin/ shows Django admin.....sigh...
- raimondious 13y agoWhat's wrong with that?
- jpulec 13y agoI'm of the belief that you should reveal as little information as possible regarding your web stack. This alone indicates that they're running Django, although that could probably could have been guessed pretty easily considering it is Python.org . Also, from a security perspective, I would prefer to have the admin site only accessible from an internal network, perhaps on a subdomain, and require people to use a VPN to make any sort of admin changes.
- andymckay 13y agoThe stack is open https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg
- donaldstufft 13y agoThe entire site is Open Source. If you rely on obscurity for security then you've done it wrong. VPN and the like would be nice but not hardly required.
- Pacabel 13y agoHe's not saying you should rely solely on obscurity for security. He's saying that, in addition to other basic security precautions, the use of obscurity is a good idea. The less a potential attacker knows, the better.
- rhizome31 13y agoThe reason for serving the admin under a non standard URL is rather to get rid of requests issued by robots who are not clever enough to realize it's open source. It's similar to not having your SSH server listening on port 22, which is a pretty common thing to do. Shouldn't be relied on for security, but it declutters log files.
- arnarbi 13y agoNice! Had to go to preview.python.org to see it. One comment: As the main feature goes between code examples, the box grows. This makes the rest of the page jump around - which is frustrating if the viewer happens to be reading it or clicking links.
- namelezz 13y agoThe Jobs tab looks too sad. :D
- jonalmeida 13y agoThe link in the middle of the page goes to jobs.python.org which doesn't exist. Chrome's "Did you mean" recommends python.org/jobs/ but that gives a pretty looking 404 at least.
- goldgoldgold 13y agoOld jobs page here: http://legacy.python.org/community/jobs/ http://legacy.python.org/community/jobs/
- pdknsk 13y agoIt's a nice design, but IMO, a bit too much is thrown at you on the front page. For someone unfamiliar, it's probably overwhelming.
- gtaylor 13y agoYeah, they've got a whole lot crammed in there. I remember this being something a lot of people were complaining about when the PSF asked for feedback a number of months ago. I guess that got ignored. The bottom of the page is pretty wacky, in particular: http://i.imgur.com/jZ6bUZu.png http://i.imgur.com/jZ6bUZu.png
- rectangletangle 13y agoThe individual UI components look fine, but I agree it's a bit too crowded. Though to be quite honest I don't care how the site looks, Python is awesome regardless.
- grey-area 13y agoCompletely agree. Probably they started with something much simpler, and different people demanded that more essentials were added until it became a bit cluttered, but it's very hard to take things out once they are there. If I had any criticism it would be this - leading with the code is great, but there are too many menus and too many choices.
- M4v3R 13y agoDesign is often an Achilles' heel of software projects, because if a project is very good, some people tend to think that design is irrelevant because people will still use it. And sometimes they do, but it probably scares a good number of people off. It's good to see an exception of this rule. They probably needed to hire a professional designer to make this happen, but it was worth it.
- jbeja 13y agoIMHO i think they didn't hire a designer for this, although it looks nicer than what it was, the output seems very amateurish for today standars.
- holdenweb 13y agoIn point of fact two companies were the primary contractors for the redesign of python.org, but since I am no longer in the loop I will commend you to wait for an upcoming PSF blog post that will give the details. Design was indeed a major input to the project.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- dangayle 13y ago>> very amateurish for today standars Indeed.
- pekk 13y agoWhat makes it amateurish?
- grey-area 13y agoIMO (as a designer), they definitely did. There are a few little niggling issues that catch my eye, like the menus looking like they are too low down because of the line above being light, and below being dark (they should be up 1px IMO), but otherwise it doesn't look bad. You may not like what they've come up with, but this is not amateur work. That's not to say I love it or don't think it can be improved, but it bears all the hallmarks of a design which has gone through several designers along with a lot of stakeholders adding in what they see as essentials and perhaps making the design messier than it was originally. Getting agreement on these things is sometimes hard, and if lots of people are involved, it can lead to a slightly cluttered feel, esp. on a home page. I do think it's refreshing that they lead with code samples, that's a really nice idea, and overall think it is looking pretty good (esp. compared to the previous site). If anything they need to pare it back some more and let the essentials speak rather than cluttering it with too much information, but I don't think I'd describe it as amateur, and if you're going to do so, you should make a far more substantial critique to explain what you consider professional to be.
- jbeja 13y agoAnd thet day has finally come, first php.net and now python.org. But the site although looks nicer, is just too much in my face and my lazyness just make me leave it before even think to explore it.
- rayshan 13y agoIs the "BETA" tag next to the python logo supposed to mean the new redesign is in beta? One can confuse it to mean python is in beta.
- pydanny 13y agoI think it's because the site is in open beta. Let's give them a few days to hash things out. ;-)
- briancurtin 13y agoThat wasn't supposed to be there. It is now removed.
- Tyr42 13y agoAll the news links are #example.
- davesque 13y agoAnd the upcoming events links too. Not to mention that they're all from 2012?
- mcdonnellb 13y agoAll the news and events are from 2012. Colours and fonts are better, but there's too much detail on the homepage imho.
- ppppl 13y agoSomeone should tell them that their font icons don't display properly in Firefox. Did a drunken lemur design this? sigh
- Silhouette 13y agoI also had to go to preview.python.org to see this. My first impression was very favourable. The design is clean and well implemented for the most part. The menu design is quite effective, except that most of the first panel, under About, seems like low priority background information that won't interest most visitors. I would have thought promoting the material on getting started, and on major areas like downloads and documentation, would be the highest priorities here. I tend to think having basic code examples high up on a programming language's home page is a good thing, and I like the general idea here. However, if it were me I'd move away from the automatic switching to something with manual controls to cycle through the examples. As others have noted, the content below keeps moving, along with all the usual problems that make carousels a bad idea. It's a shame they're still using the Flux font in places. I get that it's traditional, but it's simply not a very good font, and it brings an amateurish feel to an otherwise very professional-looking page.
- jnoller 13y agoPlease track issues with the samples / etc here: https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg it's all open source and I will be moving it to the official python org tonight
- ubercore 13y agoFor posterity, the official repo has been transferred: https://github.com/python/pythondotorg https://github.com/python/pythondotorg
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- hcarvalhoalves 13y agoIt's shaping up nicely. I appreciate it's a responsive design, but please consider the code example slideshow is broken on resize. Also, consider increasing spacing, the content is too crammed below the header.
- jnoller 13y agoGreat feedback: can you help us track it? https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg https://github.com/proevo/pythondotorg
- oddshocks 13y agoHell yes! I saw a prototype at PyCon last year and this is just awesome, really great stuff. Glad to see Python continue to evolve.
- octopus 13y agoI like it, looks simple and functional.
- TheSwordsman 13y agoWhy does the site return gzipped content for curl? I'm fairly certain curl doesn't provide the 'Accept-Encoding' header by default.
- dangayle 13y agoWe have entered the age of Lorem Ipsum images hitting production websites :) http://i.imgur.com/fvYGWvi.png http://i.imgur.com/fvYGWvi.png
- christianmann 13y agoAlso this http://imgur.com/7Bomq9Q http://imgur.com/7Bomq9Q
- briancurtin 13y agoYep, I wasn't able to get to everything. I had to update a ton of the content via the Django admin without a source checkout (which is now available), so I couldn't grep for placeholder text. We'll get it all straightened out.
- dangayle 13y agoI'm just as guilty of it as the next web guy, so I hope you didn't think it was a dis. I love the new site.
- pcurve 13y agoThanks for not making it all flat like thousands of other sites these days. But it could use a site wide nitpicking by an anal graphic designer to tweak things like typography, margin, spacing, alignment. Things are not quite perfect.
- jnoller 13y agoYes! Nitpicking welcome! https://github.com/python/pythondotorg https://github.com/python/pythondotorg
- vacri 13y agoMy exact thoughts too - "thank god, a site redesign that doesn't think a colour gradient is the devil". I like the philosophy of 'digitally authentic', but that doesn't lock you into being flat. Can't wait for that fad to be over. Great design, with only minor issues.
- tobych 13y agoSurely "Simple arithmetics" in the second code example should be "Simple arithmetic", singular.
- omaranto 13y agoMaybe that's British English, like "maths" instead of "math"?
- dominicrodger 13y agoPretty sure it's a typo (speaking as a Brit). In the mother of all pedantic pull requests, I've created https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/pull/77 https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/pull/77
- mburst 13y agoNow if only the docs could look this nice
- all2well 13y agoCongratulations, Python team! Your website is now identical to the hundreds of other bootstrap-based websites. Moreover, the page is somewhat confusing, especially with non-obvious menus, and language that makes links seem redundant. Multiple navbars don't help, either. The page also lacks contrast, especially at the top. I understand that javascript is generally a safe assumption, but the page should at least be readable and navigable without javascript (or webfonts). Also, it would be better if all the js were at python.org, instead of hotlinking to different domains. As it stands, the page is nowhere near as bad as some, but it's a nice touch.
- leephillips 13y agoCode sample 3 says, "Lists (known as arrays in other languages)", etc. Maybe a small point, but this could be confusing. Python lists are not what are usually meant by "arrays", and in fact Python provides an array module in its standard library (and there is numpy, which provides more array stuff). Since much of the "slow" Python code out there is slow at least in part due to use of inappropriate data types, it might be best not to start beginners off by mixing these things up.
- wyuenho 13y agoThey are not linked lists. They aren't that slow. The `arrays` module gives you extra typed arrays for numerical computations.
- scott_s 13y agoThey're pretty close. They provide random access, are backed by contiguous memory, and the syntax behind their use is similar to arrays in other languages.
- akx 13y agoPython lists are backed by contiguous memory of pointers to other objects, mind.
- ithkuil 13y agoThat's because there aren't unboxed primitive values in the language. Even a local integer variable contains a pointer to the integer. This is orthogonal to whether a container is a list or an array though.
- scott_s 13y agoYes, lists in Python are going to be implemented in C as arrays of PyObject pointers. Which is why numpy has their own arrays - they want arrays of int32, float64, etc.
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- grej 13y agoNext up: https://www.djangoproject.com/ https://www.djangoproject.com/
- avenger123 13y agoWhat version of Django is this using? The fact that the whole site is on github is fantastic. Incredible resource for learning Django development.
- mkhattab 13y ago>Django==1.5.4 According to the requirements.txt (https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/blob/master/requirements.txt https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/blob/master/requireme...)
- helloMarc 13y agoCan't create a new account from the login screen.
- coderanger 13y agoAt this time accounts are only for site administrators.
- mkhattab 13y agoI think it would be awesome if the main page had an online interpreter so that a visitor can run the examples in the code slider. Also, I noticed that the project repo has a Procfile, however it starts the Django development server. Do you use Heroku for development testing or production? Nice work and most definitely a refreshing change.
- enneff 13y agoLooks pretty, but the middle green on dark blue/grey makes it hard to read the actual Python code.
- tuxguy 13y agoUpcoming events lists events from 2012 What ?
- davesque 13y agoRight, what's with that?
- mkesper 13y agoVery bad date format. :( https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/70 https://github.com/python/pythondotorg/issues/70
- glasslion 13y agoIs python.org written in Python? Which frameworks does it use? Where's its source code(Is it open sourced)?
- lutusp 13y ago> Is python.org written in Python? Just look at the source of the landing page. A lot of JavaScript and the usual kinds of structure that modern pages have. > Where's its source code(Is it open sourced)? Just right-click the page in your browser and view source.
- andreasvc 13y agoThat's not how web frameworks work. There is code on the server side which _generates_ the HTML, CSS and sometimes Javascript as well. So viewing the source in your browser can give you some clues, but this doesn't reveal what is going on on the server.
- lutusp 13y agoYes, true, but one can derive some ideas about the origin of the page by scanning the source -- certainly more easily than by viewing the end result.
- akx 13y agoIt's a Django app. https://github.com/python/pythondotorg https://github.com/python/pythondotorg
- daGrevis 13y agoOverall it looks good. I miss that code console isn't actual REPL.
- echaozh 13y ago+1. A repl is definitely better. Also, the size of the console grows larger for demo 3, and shrinks back when I go for other demos. I may have a bigger font than usual, but can it be fixed?
- coderanger 13y agoIt will be some time tomorrow, we disabled for the launch to reduce the number of moving pieces changing at once.
- goblin89 13y agoRuby-lang.org went through this stage, too. Compare its old version with the new Python homepage[1]. (It is similar in their use of dark background and certain decorative elements, and in giving code samples much importance.) They've redesigned since that, reducing clutter, improving readability and visual hierarchy. Note that you can instantly tell that Ruby is a programming language, and how red “Download” button sticks out on http://ruby-lang.org/ http://ruby-lang.org/. If I were on the design team, I would spend some time researching how and why competitors (Ruby, Java, others) go about their homepages. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20100401000000/http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ https://web.archive.org/web/20100401000000/http://www.ruby-l... (I was never a Ruby programmer, but I remember being interested in the language back then, and its homepage sprung to mind after seeing Python.org redesign)
- shubb 13y agoI feel like we are looking at different sites here. At least for me, the first screenfull of python.org is dominated by a picture of some code and the text 'Python is a programming language that lets you work quickly and integrate systems more effectively', very similar to Ruby.org. From there, the python site is dominated by links to get a new Python programmer started, while the Ruby site is dominated by a blog feed that talks about recent events. So the Python front page serves a new programmer, while the Ruby frontpage is more about being the center of a comunity. Given Python is often a first programming language, while Ruby has a very tight community, I think that difference is sort of natural.
- goblin89 13y agoWe disagree and that's OK. Still, since I suspect we're indeed looking at the same site, I'm going to clarify what I mean. Clear and concise summary “Python is a programming language…” is down below near the fold of my screen, and it uses subdued gray-colored text on blue background. Meanwhile, much attention (via color contrast and positioning) is given to code samples. Code samples are aimed at those who don't yet speak Python, so they are poorly readable ‘by default’. I personally wouldn't throw them at user right away as they start skimming the page, placing short intro text higher in visual hierarchy. (I'd also try making samples more readable.) Then there's search box. It is quite high in visual hierarchy, since it's the only plain white-colored object (and a sizable rectangle at that) among the shades of blue and occasional yellow above the fold. Meanwhile, it's not (I'm sure) going to be used by the majority of users. I would say the visual hierarchy is not perfect and there's some visual clutter. Also a problem are redundant links. How many are there that lead to documentation or, say, download page? You don't know it, but your brain (or at least brain of someone who's new to the site) evaluates all of them before choosing which one to click. Of course, most of us are used to interacting with worse designs, and prior design of python.org had its own (maybe more significant) problems. Nevertheless, I think the landing page could be designed to cause less cognitive strain on the user.
- yxhuvud 13y agoIt looks somewhat influenced by the current Ruby webpage. One minus is that some of the color choices on the code blocks are not optimal. Dark grey on black is not exactly the most readable..
- krazydad 13y agoBeginning Python 2.x users are going to be confused by slide 2, which says that division produces floats. Not in my Python they don't!
- ubercore 13y agoI'm working towards building out community-driven code samples for the site. Please remember this feedback and help contribute to the samples in the future!
- ricardomol 13y agoI am very glad to see TurboGears linked in the "Use Python for Web Programming" section.