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No offense intended, but this makes me think of how many times I've heard people speaking about 'working' with emotions. It always makes me raise an eyebrow. Ex

by benched 13y ago

No offense intended, but this makes me think of how many times I've heard people speaking about 'working' with emotions. It always makes me raise an eyebrow. Examples: "Don't dwell. Release! Don't avoid... Own! Don't absorb. Transmute! Don't feed. Nurture!" I hope the idea is apparent.

hosh 13y ago
Um. No, your eyebrow-raising idea is not apparent. Of course you don't dwell, you release. Of course you transmute, not absorb. Of course you nurture, not feed. All of those are emotional skills. Why do you feel so surprised about this?
- hosh 13y ago
  All right. Would the person who downvoted the above want to explain the downvote? I was asking @benched why the person is surprised. What is obvious to @benched is not obvious to me; what is obvious to me is not obvious to @benched. What's the point of the upvote or downvote? Why did you feel the need to take the time to read all the way here and then downvote that comment?
  - lsc 13y ago
    because Benched was saying that these things sound like meaningless platitudes, then you essentially say "Of course they aren't platitudes, that is obvious!" when it isn't obvious at all to me. Then you seem to imply that anyone who doesn't find these things obvious is emotionally unskilled, whatever that means. If you took a stab at explaining what those things actually mean, I'd have upvoted. That would make for an interesting conversation, even if I didn't agree with you. As it stands, though, your post reads like a content-free insult, which is exactly the sort of thing that ought to be downvoted.
    - hosh 13y ago
      @lsc So an insult is something that happens when someone takes one action, and the other person feels offended by it. You, @lsc, cannot know whether @benched feels offended by it through just looking at the text. Rather, it is more impeccable to say that you felt offended by my words to @benched. I appreciate your efforts though. Next time, just ask for clarification rather than hitting the downvote button. I don't mind that you downvoted it; but without explaining your action like that, you are doing just the same as I am: failing to communicate. To address your questions. When you say "platitude", that means that those are words empty of power. That is for example, someone says: "Don't dwell, release!" Now, if you have never, ever experienced how to release emotions, you are also unlikely to know how your mind and awareness dwells upon those emotions. Because you have never directly experienced how to do it, in your mind, it is impossible to do. So when someone says to you, "Don't dwell, release!" there is no frame of reference to even understand what that means. To you, they are meaningless platitudes -- regardless of whether the person speaking to you has those skills or not. But for folks who have experienced this, it is obvious. It is obvious because the word obvious stems from the same word as "observable". (It is interesting you took the word "obvious" and filtered it to apply your emotional response to it, probably something along the lines of, "you are stupid because you cannot even perceive this"; for me, the intent and emotional content at the time I wrote this was more along the lines of, "yes, it can be this easy too, you should try it, don't think too much about it"). Most people are emotional morons. That is not an insult. That is exactly what most people are: confused and unskilled with emotions. If anything, it is a cause for compassion, not a means by which someone can feel better about themselves by being "better" than someone else. It also does not mean someone will stay like that forever. Like all skills, you can develop this, though it takes effort. Most people avoid painful emotions. Part of their subconscious dwells on there. It stays there because they do not want to surface it to the consciousness allow themselves to really experience that feeling, and allow it to fade on its own once it surfaces. Feeling insulted or offended, or feeling offended on behalf of someone else are examples of this dynamic in play. Usually, if something like that surfaces, and the person tries to shunt off the suffering onto someone else as quickly as possible. One typical and popular method of shunting off suffering is a process called "blame". Our justice system, in fact, is not really about justice so much as divying up blame, that is, divying up suffering among the people. That kind of stuff persists, as each person passes blame on to the next person. It may also take the form of abuse and assault. It may also take the form of more subtle things -- little revenge, or rationalizations. Sometimes, the person isn't fully aware of it, since the misery is so intense, it blocks out whatever it is that is surfacing. Even more subtly is when those emotions shapes and changes your thought pattern, and you think you are being reasonable. But you're not. Anytime someone has those hidden agendas, they speak or act in one way while trying to get at something else, this dynamic is at play. Usually, when I teach someone these skills, we'd work on what is being experienced right now. If this were a real-time conversation in meatspace, we would be talking about the emotional impulses within you that led to the downvote. It would be easier in meatspace, since I would be able to tell when things start getting sidetracked, like turning this into a drama about @hosh vs. @lsc rather than what is arising right now. Since this is not meatspace, by the time you read this comment, the arising feelings would likely be different. If you're truly impeccable about that bit about wanting a serious conversation about this, PM me privately. Indirect means of contact are in my profile. Alternatively, send me your contact info and we can go from there.

by benched 13y ago

hosh 13y ago

Um. No, your eyebrow-raising idea is not apparent. Of course you don't dwell, you release. Of course you transmute, not absorb. Of course you nurture, not feed. All of those are emotional skills. Why do you feel so surprised about this?

hosh 13y ago
All right. Would the person who downvoted the above want to explain the downvote? I was asking @benched why the person is surprised. What is obvious to @benched is not obvious to me; what is obvious to me is not obvious to @benched. What's the point of the upvote or downvote? Why did you feel the need to take the time to read all the way here and then downvote that comment?
- lsc 13y ago
  because Benched was saying that these things sound like meaningless platitudes, then you essentially say "Of course they aren't platitudes, that is obvious!" when it isn't obvious at all to me. Then you seem to imply that anyone who doesn't find these things obvious is emotionally unskilled, whatever that means. If you took a stab at explaining what those things actually mean, I'd have upvoted. That would make for an interesting conversation, even if I didn't agree with you. As it stands, though, your post reads like a content-free insult, which is exactly the sort of thing that ought to be downvoted.
  - hosh 13y ago
    @lsc So an insult is something that happens when someone takes one action, and the other person feels offended by it. You, @lsc, cannot know whether @benched feels offended by it through just looking at the text. Rather, it is more impeccable to say that you felt offended by my words to @benched. I appreciate your efforts though. Next time, just ask for clarification rather than hitting the downvote button. I don't mind that you downvoted it; but without explaining your action like that, you are doing just the same as I am: failing to communicate. To address your questions. When you say "platitude", that means that those are words empty of power. That is for example, someone says: "Don't dwell, release!" Now, if you have never, ever experienced how to release emotions, you are also unlikely to know how your mind and awareness dwells upon those emotions. Because you have never directly experienced how to do it, in your mind, it is impossible to do. So when someone says to you, "Don't dwell, release!" there is no frame of reference to even understand what that means. To you, they are meaningless platitudes -- regardless of whether the person speaking to you has those skills or not. But for folks who have experienced this, it is obvious. It is obvious because the word obvious stems from the same word as "observable". (It is interesting you took the word "obvious" and filtered it to apply your emotional response to it, probably something along the lines of, "you are stupid because you cannot even perceive this"; for me, the intent and emotional content at the time I wrote this was more along the lines of, "yes, it can be this easy too, you should try it, don't think too much about it"). Most people are emotional morons. That is not an insult. That is exactly what most people are: confused and unskilled with emotions. If anything, it is a cause for compassion, not a means by which someone can feel better about themselves by being "better" than someone else. It also does not mean someone will stay like that forever. Like all skills, you can develop this, though it takes effort. Most people avoid painful emotions. Part of their subconscious dwells on there. It stays there because they do not want to surface it to the consciousness allow themselves to really experience that feeling, and allow it to fade on its own once it surfaces. Feeling insulted or offended, or feeling offended on behalf of someone else are examples of this dynamic in play. Usually, if something like that surfaces, and the person tries to shunt off the suffering onto someone else as quickly as possible. One typical and popular method of shunting off suffering is a process called "blame". Our justice system, in fact, is not really about justice so much as divying up blame, that is, divying up suffering among the people. That kind of stuff persists, as each person passes blame on to the next person. It may also take the form of abuse and assault. It may also take the form of more subtle things -- little revenge, or rationalizations. Sometimes, the person isn't fully aware of it, since the misery is so intense, it blocks out whatever it is that is surfacing. Even more subtly is when those emotions shapes and changes your thought pattern, and you think you are being reasonable. But you're not. Anytime someone has those hidden agendas, they speak or act in one way while trying to get at something else, this dynamic is at play. Usually, when I teach someone these skills, we'd work on what is being experienced right now. If this were a real-time conversation in meatspace, we would be talking about the emotional impulses within you that led to the downvote. It would be easier in meatspace, since I would be able to tell when things start getting sidetracked, like turning this into a drama about @hosh vs. @lsc rather than what is arising right now. Since this is not meatspace, by the time you read this comment, the arising feelings would likely be different. If you're truly impeccable about that bit about wanting a serious conversation about this, PM me privately. Indirect means of contact are in my profile. Alternatively, send me your contact info and we can go from there.