4 ms·

We're talking about two difference senses of responsibility. You mean responsibility in the sense of prudence; e.g. "He made a responsible choice." I mean res

by pg 17y ago

We're talking about two difference senses of responsibility. You mean responsibility in the sense of prudence; e.g. "He made a responsible choice." I mean responsibility in the sense of something you have to worry about; e.g. "He was weighed down by responsibilities." For anyone who cares, the reason both concepts have the same name is that they share the property that you have to be able to respond to someone. The difference is that in the first case you're responding to people who are judging or depending on your choice (e.g. your parents, friends, or dependents) and in the second to people you've undertaken to do something for (e.g. customers, employees, or investors).

cperciva 17y ago
I think we're talking about two difference senses of responsibility. Well, yes. But they're closely related -- people with lots of responsibilities have to be responsible, or else bad things will happen.
- pg 17y ago
  Yes, they are related, but not in a way that makes your comment true. When your parents think you're being irresponsible by starting a startup instead of getting a job, they're thinking about the affect on your own career, not the amount of work you're undertaking to do for other people.
  - cperciva 17y ago
    When your parents think you're being irresponsible by starting a startup instead of getting a job, they're thinking about the affect on your own career, not the amount of work you're undertaking to do for other people. I'm not convinced that is generally true. Note that I'm talking about perceptions, not reality. I don't think many people avoid startups because they're afraid of being irresponsible -- I think they avoid startups because they're afraid of seeming irresponsible -- and I think a lot of this is based on the perception that a startup which hasn't reached profitability yet (especially if it doesn't have any paying customers yet) isn't a real company.
    - zackattack 17y ago
      Wait, who cares about seeming irresponsible? Unless it's to one's family, in which case pg's argument holds.
      - andreyf 17y ago
        who cares about seeming irresponsible? The "students [expected to] graduate and walk into high-paying jobs with Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft/Cisco/etc".
    - marcofloriano 17y ago
      By my little experience, both of you are right. I´m facing both problems right now, today, this morning. I got a lot of friends with a lot of skills and desire to win building theirs own business, but they are not going to do that ... For example, i have two friends that with me invest on Forex Market. We used to work like slaves, to get our objective, build a profitable forex system (odds of win here are even worse than in the startups world, it´s about 5%). Two straight years of work ... but ... one of my friends get a girlfriend. Now he have to take more responsability because she lives in another city and if he wants to stick with her, he must get a job (some girlfriends are expensive!). Indeed he get one ... but ... he had to quite our little venture, he made a choice of take responsability for his new life (a job and a girlfriend), he could not hold on with the responsability of running behind this "fancy" dream ... In another way, my parents wants me to quit from my dreams (build an forex system and a web based software startup) until my 18. They want me working for the government. Here at Brazil, work for Microsoft and Google are similar to work for the Government. Their point is that i have to be like everybody from my age, get a safe job, be independent, earn my own money and leave home (22 years old now). This kind of responsability is far more hard for me to take than the other. I can quite a (expensive)girlfriend and the status quo of having a job, but i cant ignore what my parents say and stay focused ! I wake up and sleep with this in my mind every day ! It´s like if a man must take a job to be a man, if not, you are just a kiddo. And being a kiddo on your 22 is being a loser. Being a loser is very hard to take. Thanks both of you for pointing this types of responsability. And sorry for my bad english.
- alanthonyc 17y ago
  They're closely related, but completely different. I'm starting something. I don't care if I look responsible to others or if people think I'm a responsible person or not. However, my biggest fear is that I get a bunch of customers and then somehow my product fails them. I would be responsible, and that would be bad.
tarkin2 17y ago
I haven't read the article as yet, but I experience the fear of being weighed down by responsibilities. I believe my creativity would propel me to success. But the process that creates my creativity also often leaves me intellectually flighty. And should I take on staff, customers and debt I'd worry that such flightiness (if I were unable to turn it off) would leave me unable to continue with the project--failing my staff, customers and my ability to repay the debt. And if I failed them I'd feel awful.
- jacquesm 17y ago
  It sounds like you need some co-founders to get your project off the ground, preferably at least one that has prior experience with a successful startup and exit.
  - tarkin2 17y ago
    Yes. I believe the solution to my problem is to either find someone who can keep me on the straight and narrow, or to develop enough self-control and motivation to stop such flightiness when innappropriate.
greendestiny 17y ago
I think its the same sense of the word. You can only be irresponsible if you have a lot of responsibilities and aren't meeting them. People aren't afraid of that others will think them carefree with and without any troubles which is really more sans responsibilities rather than irresponsible. Founders are worried about the responsibility of having to create something of worth from nothing. The people who surround them are afraid they won't succeed and so are they.
ivankirigin 17y ago
Moral weight of risk can get heavy. A recent rubric I came up with to decide if a startup is right for you: 1. You like to build things 2. You like to get rewarded for what you build 3. You can tolerate a high risk of getting no reward

by pg 17y ago

cperciva 17y ago

I think we're talking about two difference senses of responsibility. Well, yes. But they're closely related -- people with lots of responsibilities have to be responsible, or else bad things will happen.

pg 17y ago
Yes, they are related, but not in a way that makes your comment true. When your parents think you're being irresponsible by starting a startup instead of getting a job, they're thinking about the affect on your own career, not the amount of work you're undertaking to do for other people.
- cperciva 17y ago
  When your parents think you're being irresponsible by starting a startup instead of getting a job, they're thinking about the affect on your own career, not the amount of work you're undertaking to do for other people. I'm not convinced that is generally true. Note that I'm talking about perceptions, not reality. I don't think many people avoid startups because they're afraid of being irresponsible -- I think they avoid startups because they're afraid of seeming irresponsible -- and I think a lot of this is based on the perception that a startup which hasn't reached profitability yet (especially if it doesn't have any paying customers yet) isn't a real company.
  - zackattack 17y ago
    Wait, who cares about seeming irresponsible? Unless it's to one's family, in which case pg's argument holds.
    - andreyf 17y ago
      who cares about seeming irresponsible? The "students [expected to] graduate and walk into high-paying jobs with Google/Facebook/Amazon/Microsoft/Cisco/etc".
  - marcofloriano 17y ago
    By my little experience, both of you are right. I´m facing both problems right now, today, this morning. I got a lot of friends with a lot of skills and desire to win building theirs own business, but they are not going to do that ... For example, i have two friends that with me invest on Forex Market. We used to work like slaves, to get our objective, build a profitable forex system (odds of win here are even worse than in the startups world, it´s about 5%). Two straight years of work ... but ... one of my friends get a girlfriend. Now he have to take more responsability because she lives in another city and if he wants to stick with her, he must get a job (some girlfriends are expensive!). Indeed he get one ... but ... he had to quite our little venture, he made a choice of take responsability for his new life (a job and a girlfriend), he could not hold on with the responsability of running behind this "fancy" dream ... In another way, my parents wants me to quit from my dreams (build an forex system and a web based software startup) until my 18. They want me working for the government. Here at Brazil, work for Microsoft and Google are similar to work for the Government. Their point is that i have to be like everybody from my age, get a safe job, be independent, earn my own money and leave home (22 years old now). This kind of responsability is far more hard for me to take than the other. I can quite a (expensive)girlfriend and the status quo of having a job, but i cant ignore what my parents say and stay focused ! I wake up and sleep with this in my mind every day ! It´s like if a man must take a job to be a man, if not, you are just a kiddo. And being a kiddo on your 22 is being a loser. Being a loser is very hard to take. Thanks both of you for pointing this types of responsability. And sorry for my bad english.
alanthonyc 17y ago
They're closely related, but completely different. I'm starting something. I don't care if I look responsible to others or if people think I'm a responsible person or not. However, my biggest fear is that I get a bunch of customers and then somehow my product fails them. I would be responsible, and that would be bad.

tarkin2 17y ago

I haven't read the article as yet, but I experience the fear of being weighed down by responsibilities. I believe my creativity would propel me to success. But the process that creates my creativity also often leaves me intellectually flighty. And should I take on staff, customers and debt I'd worry that such flightiness (if I were unable to turn it off) would leave me unable to continue with the project--failing my staff, customers and my ability to repay the debt. And if I failed them I'd feel awful.

jacquesm 17y ago
It sounds like you need some co-founders to get your project off the ground, preferably at least one that has prior experience with a successful startup and exit.
- tarkin2 17y ago
  Yes. I believe the solution to my problem is to either find someone who can keep me on the straight and narrow, or to develop enough self-control and motivation to stop such flightiness when innappropriate.

greendestiny 17y ago

I think its the same sense of the word. You can only be irresponsible if you have a lot of responsibilities and aren't meeting them. People aren't afraid of that others will think them carefree with and without any troubles which is really more sans responsibilities rather than irresponsible. Founders are worried about the responsibility of having to create something of worth from nothing. The people who surround them are afraid they won't succeed and so are they.

ivankirigin 17y ago

Moral weight of risk can get heavy. A recent rubric I came up with to decide if a startup is right for you: 1. You like to build things 2. You like to get rewarded for what you build 3. You can tolerate a high risk of getting no reward