5 ms·

What I don't fully understand and what is missing from media coverage so far is how the Ukrainians went from protesting against Putin's manipulation to burning

What I don't fully understand and what is missing from media coverage so far is how the Ukrainians went from protesting against Putin's manipulation to burning down the place. There must have been grievances that happened long before this incident, and there must have been a lot of brutality against the protesters to radicalize them this promptly.

MarkPNeyer 13y ago
a protest against putin's manipulation was violently attacked by police. this drew more protesters. there was a law passed in late december that effectively outlaws protests. this also drew more protesters, and they grew more militant.
justizin 13y ago
I'm not sure it's unfolded quite the way you imagine. The protesters are not "burning down the place", they built a camp in a public square to support their efforts as a base of operation, which is common. My understanding is that riot police chose to invade this space and try to shut down the protest, and that in the process of this, the protester camp has been set afire. Reckless use of explosive teargas canisters could be to blame, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the riot cops are just setting things on fire. You may have seen some pictures of protesters with molotov cocktails, makeshift firebombs consisting of a bottle filled with explosive liquid and maybe a piece of a torn shirt as a fuse. That's probably a reaction to the behavior of the police and the regime in general. When your buddy just got shot in the face, you are likely to put away the long-game because you are clearly now just fighting for your right to disagree, to be in the street. Or in other words, you may escalate beyond peaceful / nonviolent tactics to protect the right to assemble and demonstrate peacefully. Or some people might on your behalf, whether you like it or not.
efoto 13y ago
The protesters didn't burn down the place. They lit up the barricades to defend maidan from riot police and this is what we all saw on TV.
- iamwithnail 13y ago
  Exactly. This, from a couple of weeks ago explains quite well what they're doing: http://chistoprudov.livejournal.com/83284.html http://chistoprudov.livejournal.com/83284.html
kushti 13y ago
The aggressive core of protesters are nazis. I think they had trainings and illegal weapon long time before protests(as well as radical youth / nazis in other countries).
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Wow, maybe next time try and keep from commenting on a situation you know nothing about.
  - kushti 13y ago
    Well: 1. http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sinn_fein_front/41042306/570825/570825_original.jpg http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sinn_fein_front/41042306/5708... . I hope you know what 1488 means 2. Many jews were beaten on Kiev streets during "peaceful protests"(no coverage in worldwide media, only in local UA news)
    - dmishe 13y ago
      2. source?
      - lcedp 13y ago
        a) Vice-president of the World Jewish Congress and chairman of the Association of Jewish Organizations and Communities of Ukraine Joseph Zissels believes maidan has nothing to do with the beatings but rather, he says, the government is involved. (in Ukrainian language) http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/vandalism/55077/ http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/vandalism/550... b) Jewish girl helping on the maidan. She's telling that a lot of her friends go to help maidan after studies or work hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZ9PVsD8HQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZ9PVsD8HQ
- bayesianhorse 13y ago
  It's entirely possible that there are "Nazis" in this group. However, a group composed mostly of "Nazis" usually shows more in the way of flags, colors and symbols than what the pictures show. As would do communists, or even islamists. Seems like their is no easy explanation what this group actually is instead of a bunch of very angry Ukrainians.

MarkPNeyer 13y ago

a protest against putin's manipulation was violently attacked by police. this drew more protesters. there was a law passed in late december that effectively outlaws protests. this also drew more protesters, and they grew more militant.

justizin 13y ago

I'm not sure it's unfolded quite the way you imagine. The protesters are not "burning down the place", they built a camp in a public square to support their efforts as a base of operation, which is common. My understanding is that riot police chose to invade this space and try to shut down the protest, and that in the process of this, the protester camp has been set afire. Reckless use of explosive teargas canisters could be to blame, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the riot cops are just setting things on fire. You may have seen some pictures of protesters with molotov cocktails, makeshift firebombs consisting of a bottle filled with explosive liquid and maybe a piece of a torn shirt as a fuse. That's probably a reaction to the behavior of the police and the regime in general. When your buddy just got shot in the face, you are likely to put away the long-game because you are clearly now just fighting for your right to disagree, to be in the street. Or in other words, you may escalate beyond peaceful / nonviolent tactics to protect the right to assemble and demonstrate peacefully. Or some people might on your behalf, whether you like it or not.

efoto 13y ago

The protesters didn't burn down the place. They lit up the barricades to defend maidan from riot police and this is what we all saw on TV.

iamwithnail 13y ago
Exactly. This, from a couple of weeks ago explains quite well what they're doing: http://chistoprudov.livejournal.com/83284.html http://chistoprudov.livejournal.com/83284.html

kushti 13y ago

The aggressive core of protesters are nazis. I think they had trainings and illegal weapon long time before protests(as well as radical youth / nazis in other countries).

pyrocat 13y ago
Wow, maybe next time try and keep from commenting on a situation you know nothing about.
- kushti 13y ago
  Well: 1. http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sinn_fein_front/41042306/570825/570825_original.jpg http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sinn_fein_front/41042306/5708... . I hope you know what 1488 means 2. Many jews were beaten on Kiev streets during "peaceful protests"(no coverage in worldwide media, only in local UA news)
  - dmishe 13y ago
    2. source?
    - lcedp 13y ago
      a) Vice-president of the World Jewish Congress and chairman of the Association of Jewish Organizations and Communities of Ukraine Joseph Zissels believes maidan has nothing to do with the beatings but rather, he says, the government is involved. (in Ukrainian language) http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/vandalism/55077/ http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/all_news/community/vandalism/550... b) Jewish girl helping on the maidan. She's telling that a lot of her friends go to help maidan after studies or work hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZ9PVsD8HQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNZ9PVsD8HQ
bayesianhorse 13y ago
It's entirely possible that there are "Nazis" in this group. However, a group composed mostly of "Nazis" usually shows more in the way of flags, colors and symbols than what the pictures show. As would do communists, or even islamists. Seems like their is no easy explanation what this group actually is instead of a bunch of very angry Ukrainians.