10 ms·

I guess I fundamentally do not understand what makes a city a good or bad candidate for this kind of service. Why is SF or NY not an obvious candidate? Densit

I guess I fundamentally do not understand what makes a city a good or bad candidate for this kind of service. Why is SF or NY not an obvious candidate? Density means that there are lots of customers for a given physical length of infrastructure rollout, they're both wealthy cities with a large proportion of techies who could use faster internet... I'm sure they're both nightmares to deal with permitting processes for. Is that it? Or is there something else that makes mid-tier, more spread-out cities more attractive?

tdees40 13y ago
I suspect they mostly want a compliant political infrastructure and relatively easy construction. NYC and SF aren't really known for either. Also, NYC would probably be biting off more than Google Fiber has any interest in chewing at the moment. They're still scaling up, after all.
- Nrsolis 13y ago
  YUP. The short answer is: it's much easier to build in a greenfield environment where there is a "helpful" local government, ready access to rights-of-way, and underserved population, easy construction costs, access to labor, favorable tax climate, and a host of other reasons that come before "lots of people who want gigabit speeds". The economics of building (or overbuilding) a gigabit fiber network drive you towards areas where you can get a high degree of penetration for your investment. That's not going to happen in a place like NYC or SF. The construction costs (directional boring) and tax regime (network cables are "property" for property tax purposes) mean that SF and NYC are probably going to be the LAST places to get Google Fiber.
  - toomuchtodo 13y ago
    > (network cables are "property" for property tax purposes) WUT.
    - Nrsolis 13y ago
      Look it up. If you install $15M of fiber in/around town, you can bet your bottom dollar that the local taxing authority considers that real property and will tax you on it at appropriate rates. In TX, colo providers have had to send business property tax bills to people who locate their servers in those centers. Sometimes those bills are quite shocking. In CT, the local phone companies started putting DSLAMs on poles because it got them off the ground and saved them millions on property taxes because there was a rate differential between property that was pole attached and property that was on the ground. Never underestimate the effect that taxes can have on the deployment, operation, and maintenance of business property. You can explain great deals of financial shenanigans to the real savings associated with avoiding taxes. And who gets screwed? Anyone who doesn't have the scale or size to make avoiding that tax worthwhile. e.g. the small-business owner.
- jseliger 13y ago
  Good answer. I always post this: http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/att-ordered-stop-u-verse-buildout-san-francisco/2011-11-17 http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/att-ordered-stop-u-verse-... when people ask why SF isn't at the top of the list. Existing telcos already can't easily roll out faster service!
  - simoncion 13y ago
    ATT is now rolling out U-Verse in San Francisco: http://www.noevalleyvoice.com/2013/May/Att.htm http://www.noevalleyvoice.com/2013/May/Att.htm The challenge to ATT's plans was manifold: 1) ATT refused to put their equipment underground. SF's sidewalks don't need more cabinets. 2) U-Verse is DSL service. Sonic.net already offers 40mbps DSL service in SF, so U-Verse is not that much faster. Why does SF need more cabinets to get pretty much the same data service from the incumbent telco? 3) ATT is putting cabinets on the sidewalks, and running fiber to those cabinets to serve ~45mbps connections to folks ~800 feet away. If ATT had planned to run fiber from those new cabinets into residences ~800 feet away and provide 100mbps or 1gbps service, folks would have welcomed their project. 4) Monkeybrains [0] and Sonic.net [1][2] have had (for several years) workable plans to eventually deliver 1gbps service to the whole city with (they say) far fewer aboveground boxes that ATT "requires" for U-Verse, and don't even need to dig up the street to lay the fiber. I'm not sure why they've been ignored by the Mayor's Office and the DPW. [0] https://www.monkeybrains.net/DPW-MonkeyBrains-March-2011.pdf https://www.monkeybrains.net/DPW-MonkeyBrains-March-2011.pdf [1] http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2010/07/14/micro-trenching-at-sonic-net/ http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2010/07/14/micro-trenching-at-soni... [2] http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2011/12/15/sonic-net-plans-gigabit-fiber-network-in-san-francisco-release/ http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2011/12/15/sonic-net-plans-gigabit...
    - jseliger 13y ago
      Putting cabinets on sidewalks still seems like a very minor point and still part of the "People United Against Everything" syndrome affecting so much of America. Maybe U-Verse is not that much faster, but faster is still important! If Sonic / Monkeybrains can deliver 1gbps, all the better.
    - 13y ago
- abvdasker 13y ago
  The beautiful thing about this in the long-term is that if Google Fiber succeeds and becomes more widespread, people will start to say, "Why don't we have this?" If this succeeds — and I have little doubt it will — local governments across the country will be under increasing pressure from their constituents to move away from the monopolistic deals most cities have now with Comcast. I see this as a huge step in the right direction and cannot wait to see how it turns out.
- bicknergseng 13y ago
  To be fair, San Jose has a pretty awful political climate as well. I mean look at VTA.
  - jason_slack 13y ago
    I'm in San Jose, what's wrong with VTA?
runjake 13y ago
This is answered in their FAQ. The summary is: a wide range of variables.
msrpotus 13y ago
Probably because they are larger so it would take more time than a lot of the other cities here.
mason55 13y ago
> Why is SF or NY not an obvious candidate? At least in NYC most of the buildings are older buildings that have already been wired for copper and are very tough to rewire. It's a much bigger task to rewire a building than to run a drop to a house. So then you end up having no idea whether fiber is available in any specific building. Plus many buildings have signed exclusivity agreements. FiOS has the exact same problems and so is generally just available in newer buildings.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  That sounds strange to me. I live in Sweden and went apartment-hunting last year. Not one of the apartments I looked at was without fiber (technically, ethernet in the apartments, fiber to the building). Including buildings that pre-date WW1. They all had pre-existing cable and DSL as well. If there's a will, there's a way. I guess in the US there just isn't much of a will yet.
  - thedufer 13y ago
    Vacancies in NYC are incredibly low, so a landlord doesn't gain much by being able to advertise fiber internet. This, added to the expense of wiring the old buildings, means that its not a worthwhile investment.
    - ericd 13y ago
      Actually, I and many others I know would pay a significant rent premium for a building that had fiber access, so I think a case could be made for it financially.
    - tijs 13y ago
      In sweden this sort of thing is done by the city/state not 'the market' which makes for a different set of arguments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_country#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_count...
      - 13y ago
shmerl 13y ago
I wish Google Fiber could be deployed in NY. However if you consider the cost of deployment, it's much cheaper to do it in a rural area than in the middle of the dense city. I.e. cost per meter of deployed cable can differ a lot.
- heartbreak 13y ago
  None of the cities listed on that page are "rural" by any stretch of the imagination.
  - shmerl 13y ago
    Then it's not an issue and Google is not scared of digging the earth. On the other hand they write they want to reuse existing conduits, rather than perform new construction.
    - heartbreak 13y ago
      I don't understand your point. Just because Atlanta isn't as densely developed as New York City doesn't make it "rural".
      - shmerl 13y ago
        As I said, if Google is not scared to dig - good for them. But they seem to want to avoid it. See their FAQ.
      - selectodude 13y ago
        In every metro area they've chosen, the vast majority of dwellings are single-family, owner occupied. So they can run cables above ground next to the existing telco equipment, and approach homeowners directly when it comes to installing the drop. In Chicago, about 60 percent of the city is NOT owner-occupied. I'm sure New York is significantly higher. MDU runs are much more expensive, even with cooperative landlords.
yeukhon 13y ago
Just ask any NYC folks. How many of us are still waiting for that FIOS? I am waiting and waiting. And they promised to complete by 2014. We are almost three months into 2014 and I still have no FiOS access here. A bit above my area has already gotten FiOS two-three years ago and my area still hasn't gotten any! I am angry. We need to break this franchises. > The company also appears to be blaming landlords for any hold ups in deployments Yeah. Excuse. I haven't heard any landlord in my neighborhood ever complain about this. A lot of my neighbor landlords (they don't actually live there, just for rent), when they come by we would have conversation about these things (because they know I do some computer stuff and they would come and ask for advice when TW goes down), they say they'd make more rent if FiOS was here. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Accused-of-Lagging-on-NYC-FiOS-Promises-124089 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Accused-of-Laggin...
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  VZW stopped rolling out FIOS across the board I believe.
  - skyebook 13y ago
    Yeah I've heard/seen this as well, they've done it in favor of expanding LTE coverage [0] I'm astounded at how anyone at VZ thinks this could be a good idea. [0] http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Again-Confirms-FiOS-Expansion-is-Over-118949 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Again-Confirms-Fi...
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      I believe the FIOS demand wasn't high enough to justify the costs of expanding it any further.
      - pwarner 13y ago
        fios penetration rate is 35% which is not bad. http://www.lightreading.com/fios-slows-but-still-grows/d/d-id/707379 http://www.lightreading.com/fios-slows-but-still-grows/d/d-i...
higherpurpose 13y ago
Utah: large NSA datacencer -> Good. See how this works?
gremlinsinc 13y ago
Why couldn't they lay fiber to core areas, then setup some sort of wireless redistribution - there'd be some lack of speed due to more users using same connection, but it would mean less construction required. As they could just setup more and more access points throughout the city, and some sort of wireless login for specific users... --Might be a possible solution.
- wmf 13y ago
  That sounds like LTE, which you can already get.
bhousel 13y ago
Doing any kind of utility work in NYC is a nightmare. There's lots of stuff underground (power, telecom, water, steam, sewer) that has been built up over the years and is in various states of obsolescence and disrepair, and in many cases isn't really marked on any utility maps. It's not a trivial matter to just dig a new trench for fiber. Here's a interesting story of what happened when an electrician found a 250VDC feed that was supposed to be abandoned decades ago: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/fixture-tails-44009/#post821444 http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/fixture-tails-44009/#post8...
- wj 13y ago
  And here is a cool cross section of what lies underneath New York City: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/nyunderground/ http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/nyunderground/
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- Pxtl 13y ago
  ... dangit, I wish I knew more about electrical work. Why was that so dangerous? I mean, besides 250 volts and rotted-out insulation. The writer makes it sound like he just discovered an unexploded bomb.
  - jrockway 13y ago
    The steam pipes that blow up every couple years are the unexploded bombs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system "At least 12 steam pipe explosions have occurred in New York City since 1987." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explosion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explos...
  - bhousel 13y ago
    Good question! AC voltage is relatively safer because it crosses the zero point 120 times a second. If it passes through your body, your muscles will spasm but you will have an opportunity to pull away. Also, AC voltage will probably not sustain an arc at such a low voltage, again, because it is constantly switching polarity. On the other hand DC voltage, once a connection has been made, will continue to flow through that path to complete the circuit. You can think of it as the electrons on the hot wire want very badly to get back to the place where they were generated (the source transformer under that covered up manhole). If they find a path through your body, it will continue to flow through your blood vessels until either you or the wire burns up, or the upstream transform faults. You basically become a fuse. If you are part of the circuit, you'd better hope there is somebody nearby to hit you you with a pole, because otherwise you are pretty much stuck that way. Also, DC voltage is much better at sustaining an arc, even below 100 volts, so it can set off an explosion that can ignite whatever dust is lying around the equipment. Google "arc flash" to see what this looks like.
bgilroy26 13y ago
When major Telco players decide how much to invest in opposing Google, the first place they look for a measuring stick is the potential lost revenue numbers. The huge customers in cities on the coasts would give them every reason to fight tooth and nail. Going for small potatoes first represents a larger financial risk for Google, but it gives them a better chance to work out the kinks in their product in relative peace.
rwhitman 13y ago
I looked at the map and was curious - are these cities each in somewhat close proximity to existing google data centers? It would make sense if fiber, much like app engine is just productizing existing google infrastructure
etler 13y ago
I think their strategy is to get it out to as many people as possible in the most efficient way possible. I imagine doing construction in SF and NY is a nightmare so it would be a fight to get it done. If you do it in the easy places first, show all the benefits, and get the big cities jealous, you can drum up more demand than if you go through a painstaking multi year process just to get it in one city. Their rollout to Kansas City was impressively fast. Had it taken years it would have done terrible things for their campaign.
nobleach 13y ago
When Google came to Provo, UT, it wasn't because of the friendly government. It was simply that it already had plenty of fiber and a bankrupt ISP that Google could buy out. There's plenty of fiber that's been buried in the ground since the 80's. Some is in use, some is not. Some has more potential. Here in Utah, we have another fiber company called Utopia... I wouldn't be surprised if Google isn't just going around buying these companies and using the existing fiber. I'm probably way off base.
- tekalon 13y ago
  I had the same thought when I heard this. With Utopia already laying down the fiber (and keeping track of where it is compared to Provo) it would be smart move for Google to buy up Utopia.
peter303 13y ago
I wonder if the existance of "dark fiber" is a factor. In the late 1990s a half dozen fiber companies tore up our industrial park street laying new fiber. I doubt if much of it is used. One new fiber was laid last year since then.

tdees40 13y ago

I suspect they mostly want a compliant political infrastructure and relatively easy construction. NYC and SF aren't really known for either. Also, NYC would probably be biting off more than Google Fiber has any interest in chewing at the moment. They're still scaling up, after all.

Nrsolis 13y ago
YUP. The short answer is: it's much easier to build in a greenfield environment where there is a "helpful" local government, ready access to rights-of-way, and underserved population, easy construction costs, access to labor, favorable tax climate, and a host of other reasons that come before "lots of people who want gigabit speeds". The economics of building (or overbuilding) a gigabit fiber network drive you towards areas where you can get a high degree of penetration for your investment. That's not going to happen in a place like NYC or SF. The construction costs (directional boring) and tax regime (network cables are "property" for property tax purposes) mean that SF and NYC are probably going to be the LAST places to get Google Fiber.
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  > (network cables are "property" for property tax purposes) WUT.
  - Nrsolis 13y ago
    Look it up. If you install $15M of fiber in/around town, you can bet your bottom dollar that the local taxing authority considers that real property and will tax you on it at appropriate rates. In TX, colo providers have had to send business property tax bills to people who locate their servers in those centers. Sometimes those bills are quite shocking. In CT, the local phone companies started putting DSLAMs on poles because it got them off the ground and saved them millions on property taxes because there was a rate differential between property that was pole attached and property that was on the ground. Never underestimate the effect that taxes can have on the deployment, operation, and maintenance of business property. You can explain great deals of financial shenanigans to the real savings associated with avoiding taxes. And who gets screwed? Anyone who doesn't have the scale or size to make avoiding that tax worthwhile. e.g. the small-business owner.
jseliger 13y ago
Good answer. I always post this: http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/att-ordered-stop-u-verse-buildout-san-francisco/2011-11-17 http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/att-ordered-stop-u-verse-... when people ask why SF isn't at the top of the list. Existing telcos already can't easily roll out faster service!
- simoncion 13y ago
  ATT is now rolling out U-Verse in San Francisco: http://www.noevalleyvoice.com/2013/May/Att.htm http://www.noevalleyvoice.com/2013/May/Att.htm The challenge to ATT's plans was manifold: 1) ATT refused to put their equipment underground. SF's sidewalks don't need more cabinets. 2) U-Verse is DSL service. Sonic.net already offers 40mbps DSL service in SF, so U-Verse is not that much faster. Why does SF need more cabinets to get pretty much the same data service from the incumbent telco? 3) ATT is putting cabinets on the sidewalks, and running fiber to those cabinets to serve ~45mbps connections to folks ~800 feet away. If ATT had planned to run fiber from those new cabinets into residences ~800 feet away and provide 100mbps or 1gbps service, folks would have welcomed their project. 4) Monkeybrains [0] and Sonic.net [1][2] have had (for several years) workable plans to eventually deliver 1gbps service to the whole city with (they say) far fewer aboveground boxes that ATT "requires" for U-Verse, and don't even need to dig up the street to lay the fiber. I'm not sure why they've been ignored by the Mayor's Office and the DPW. [0] https://www.monkeybrains.net/DPW-MonkeyBrains-March-2011.pdf https://www.monkeybrains.net/DPW-MonkeyBrains-March-2011.pdf [1] http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2010/07/14/micro-trenching-at-sonic-net/ http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2010/07/14/micro-trenching-at-soni... [2] http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2011/12/15/sonic-net-plans-gigabit-fiber-network-in-san-francisco-release/ http://corp.sonic.net/ceo/2011/12/15/sonic-net-plans-gigabit...
  - jseliger 13y ago
    Putting cabinets on sidewalks still seems like a very minor point and still part of the "People United Against Everything" syndrome affecting so much of America. Maybe U-Verse is not that much faster, but faster is still important! If Sonic / Monkeybrains can deliver 1gbps, all the better.
  - 13y ago
abvdasker 13y ago
The beautiful thing about this in the long-term is that if Google Fiber succeeds and becomes more widespread, people will start to say, "Why don't we have this?" If this succeeds — and I have little doubt it will — local governments across the country will be under increasing pressure from their constituents to move away from the monopolistic deals most cities have now with Comcast. I see this as a huge step in the right direction and cannot wait to see how it turns out.
bicknergseng 13y ago
To be fair, San Jose has a pretty awful political climate as well. I mean look at VTA.
- jason_slack 13y ago
  I'm in San Jose, what's wrong with VTA?

runjake 13y ago

This is answered in their FAQ. The summary is: a wide range of variables.

msrpotus 13y ago

Probably because they are larger so it would take more time than a lot of the other cities here.

mason55 13y ago

> Why is SF or NY not an obvious candidate? At least in NYC most of the buildings are older buildings that have already been wired for copper and are very tough to rewire. It's a much bigger task to rewire a building than to run a drop to a house. So then you end up having no idea whether fiber is available in any specific building. Plus many buildings have signed exclusivity agreements. FiOS has the exact same problems and so is generally just available in newer buildings.

kalleboo 13y ago
That sounds strange to me. I live in Sweden and went apartment-hunting last year. Not one of the apartments I looked at was without fiber (technically, ethernet in the apartments, fiber to the building). Including buildings that pre-date WW1. They all had pre-existing cable and DSL as well. If there's a will, there's a way. I guess in the US there just isn't much of a will yet.
- thedufer 13y ago
  Vacancies in NYC are incredibly low, so a landlord doesn't gain much by being able to advertise fiber internet. This, added to the expense of wiring the old buildings, means that its not a worthwhile investment.
  - ericd 13y ago
    Actually, I and many others I know would pay a significant rent premium for a building that had fiber access, so I think a case could be made for it financially.
  - tijs 13y ago
    In sweden this sort of thing is done by the city/state not 'the market' which makes for a different set of arguments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_country#Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_to_the_premises_by_count...
    - 13y ago

shmerl 13y ago

I wish Google Fiber could be deployed in NY. However if you consider the cost of deployment, it's much cheaper to do it in a rural area than in the middle of the dense city. I.e. cost per meter of deployed cable can differ a lot.

heartbreak 13y ago
None of the cities listed on that page are "rural" by any stretch of the imagination.
- shmerl 13y ago
  Then it's not an issue and Google is not scared of digging the earth. On the other hand they write they want to reuse existing conduits, rather than perform new construction.
  - heartbreak 13y ago
    I don't understand your point. Just because Atlanta isn't as densely developed as New York City doesn't make it "rural".
    - shmerl 13y ago
      As I said, if Google is not scared to dig - good for them. But they seem to want to avoid it. See their FAQ.
    - selectodude 13y ago
      In every metro area they've chosen, the vast majority of dwellings are single-family, owner occupied. So they can run cables above ground next to the existing telco equipment, and approach homeowners directly when it comes to installing the drop. In Chicago, about 60 percent of the city is NOT owner-occupied. I'm sure New York is significantly higher. MDU runs are much more expensive, even with cooperative landlords.

yeukhon 13y ago

Just ask any NYC folks. How many of us are still waiting for that FIOS? I am waiting and waiting. And they promised to complete by 2014. We are almost three months into 2014 and I still have no FiOS access here. A bit above my area has already gotten FiOS two-three years ago and my area still hasn't gotten any! I am angry. We need to break this franchises. > The company also appears to be blaming landlords for any hold ups in deployments Yeah. Excuse. I haven't heard any landlord in my neighborhood ever complain about this. A lot of my neighbor landlords (they don't actually live there, just for rent), when they come by we would have conversation about these things (because they know I do some computer stuff and they would come and ask for advice when TW goes down), they say they'd make more rent if FiOS was here. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Accused-of-Lagging-on-NYC-FiOS-Promises-124089 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Accused-of-Laggin...

res0nat0r 13y ago
VZW stopped rolling out FIOS across the board I believe.
- skyebook 13y ago
  Yeah I've heard/seen this as well, they've done it in favor of expanding LTE coverage [0] I'm astounded at how anyone at VZ thinks this could be a good idea. [0] http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Again-Confirms-FiOS-Expansion-is-Over-118949 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-Again-Confirms-Fi...
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    I believe the FIOS demand wasn't high enough to justify the costs of expanding it any further.
    - pwarner 13y ago
      fios penetration rate is 35% which is not bad. http://www.lightreading.com/fios-slows-but-still-grows/d/d-id/707379 http://www.lightreading.com/fios-slows-but-still-grows/d/d-i...

higherpurpose 13y ago

Utah: large NSA datacencer -> Good. See how this works?

gremlinsinc 13y ago

Why couldn't they lay fiber to core areas, then setup some sort of wireless redistribution - there'd be some lack of speed due to more users using same connection, but it would mean less construction required. As they could just setup more and more access points throughout the city, and some sort of wireless login for specific users... --Might be a possible solution.

wmf 13y ago
That sounds like LTE, which you can already get.

bhousel 13y ago

Doing any kind of utility work in NYC is a nightmare. There's lots of stuff underground (power, telecom, water, steam, sewer) that has been built up over the years and is in various states of obsolescence and disrepair, and in many cases isn't really marked on any utility maps. It's not a trivial matter to just dig a new trench for fiber. Here's a interesting story of what happened when an electrician found a 250VDC feed that was supposed to be abandoned decades ago: http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/fixture-tails-44009/#post821444 http://www.electriciantalk.com/f5/fixture-tails-44009/#post8...

wj 13y ago
And here is a cool cross section of what lies underneath New York City: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/nyunderground/ http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/nyunderground/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
Pxtl 13y ago
... dangit, I wish I knew more about electrical work. Why was that so dangerous? I mean, besides 250 volts and rotted-out insulation. The writer makes it sound like he just discovered an unexploded bomb.
- jrockway 13y ago
  The steam pipes that blow up every couple years are the unexploded bombs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system "At least 12 steam pipe explosions have occurred in New York City since 1987." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explosion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explos...
- bhousel 13y ago
  Good question! AC voltage is relatively safer because it crosses the zero point 120 times a second. If it passes through your body, your muscles will spasm but you will have an opportunity to pull away. Also, AC voltage will probably not sustain an arc at such a low voltage, again, because it is constantly switching polarity. On the other hand DC voltage, once a connection has been made, will continue to flow through that path to complete the circuit. You can think of it as the electrons on the hot wire want very badly to get back to the place where they were generated (the source transformer under that covered up manhole). If they find a path through your body, it will continue to flow through your blood vessels until either you or the wire burns up, or the upstream transform faults. You basically become a fuse. If you are part of the circuit, you'd better hope there is somebody nearby to hit you you with a pole, because otherwise you are pretty much stuck that way. Also, DC voltage is much better at sustaining an arc, even below 100 volts, so it can set off an explosion that can ignite whatever dust is lying around the equipment. Google "arc flash" to see what this looks like.

bgilroy26 13y ago

When major Telco players decide how much to invest in opposing Google, the first place they look for a measuring stick is the potential lost revenue numbers. The huge customers in cities on the coasts would give them every reason to fight tooth and nail. Going for small potatoes first represents a larger financial risk for Google, but it gives them a better chance to work out the kinks in their product in relative peace.

rwhitman 13y ago

I looked at the map and was curious - are these cities each in somewhat close proximity to existing google data centers? It would make sense if fiber, much like app engine is just productizing existing google infrastructure

etler 13y ago

I think their strategy is to get it out to as many people as possible in the most efficient way possible. I imagine doing construction in SF and NY is a nightmare so it would be a fight to get it done. If you do it in the easy places first, show all the benefits, and get the big cities jealous, you can drum up more demand than if you go through a painstaking multi year process just to get it in one city. Their rollout to Kansas City was impressively fast. Had it taken years it would have done terrible things for their campaign.

nobleach 13y ago

When Google came to Provo, UT, it wasn't because of the friendly government. It was simply that it already had plenty of fiber and a bankrupt ISP that Google could buy out. There's plenty of fiber that's been buried in the ground since the 80's. Some is in use, some is not. Some has more potential. Here in Utah, we have another fiber company called Utopia... I wouldn't be surprised if Google isn't just going around buying these companies and using the existing fiber. I'm probably way off base.

tekalon 13y ago
I had the same thought when I heard this. With Utopia already laying down the fiber (and keeping track of where it is compared to Provo) it would be smart move for Google to buy up Utopia.

peter303 13y ago

I wonder if the existance of "dark fiber" is a factor. In the late 1990s a half dozen fiber companies tore up our industrial park street laying new fiber. I doubt if much of it is used. One new fiber was laid last year since then.