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>> "Nowadays, everything is "terrorism"." This hasn't changed. Mandela was once (stupidly) thought a terrorist by the current British prime minister. People's

>> "Nowadays, everything is "terrorism"." This hasn't changed. Mandela was once (stupidly) thought a terrorist by the current British prime minister. People's definition of terrorism constantly changes. I'm sure there are many people in the Middle East that consider the US a terrorist. It's a ridiculous classification as it's far too vague. Edit: does the person who down voted this feel like explaining why? I don't see how it doesn't add to the conversation.

andyjohnson0 13y ago
It was Margaret Thatcher that considered Mandela to be a terrorist, not David Cameron. I didn't down-vote you.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  I understand she was in power at the time. Cameron was linked however to this[1] 'hang Mandela' campaign poster. I'm not positive but I believe he apologised in parliament after Mandela's death. [1] http://i.stack.imgur.com/TeN0o.jpg http://i.stack.imgur.com/TeN0o.jpg
  - andyjohnson0 13y ago
    Cameron apologied on behalf of Conservative party [1], not personally. The "Hang Nelson Mandela" material was created by a group, which Cameron was not involved with, within the Federation of Conservative Students. Disclosure: I'm not a Conservative supporter. I dislike what Cameron is currently doing and loathe Thatcher. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-we-were-wrong-to-call-mandela-a-terrorist-413684.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-we-wer... [2] http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2013/12/twitter-fact-check-david-cameron-didnt-want-hang-nelson-mandela-80s http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2013/12/twitter-fact-...
- SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure that they both "considered Mandela to be a terrorist", and most of the rest of the Conservative party at the time did too. But at the time nobody cared what David Cameron thought.
- vixen99 13y ago
  "Mandela was leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe which he co-founded. "he coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid". If that's not terrorism (systematic use of violence as a means of coercion for political purposes) what is? The morality of this is another discussion.
  - wnoise 13y ago
    > terrorism (systematic use of violence as a means of coercion for political purposes) All warfare seems to fit under this definition. Commonly explicitly added qualifiers are "against civilians" or "by non-state actors". Another implicit one is "by people the speaker doesn't like".
    - lmm 13y ago
      Right, but we're talking about a non-state actor attacking civilian targets like power stations. Mandela fits any reasonable definition of terrorist.
      - wnoise 13y ago
        Sure, not disputing that, only the definition expressed.
gadders 13y ago
And the Labour governments before Thatcher sold arms to South Africa.
adnam 13y ago
To be fair, he was the commander of Umkhonto we Sizwe which carried out bombings, torture and killings. By anyone's standards he was no peacenik.
- gadders 13y ago
  Also, this was at the height of the cold war and the ANC was a communist organisation. Nobody in the west wanted South Africa becoming part of the USSR's sphere of influence. There was a large amoung of realpolitik involved.
Zigurd 13y ago
Before he was turned into a Nice Older Gentleman Who Wanted Freedom, Nelson Mandela was a real revolutionary. Governments hate to admit it when revolutionaries win.

andyjohnson0 13y ago

It was Margaret Thatcher that considered Mandela to be a terrorist, not David Cameron. I didn't down-vote you.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
I understand she was in power at the time. Cameron was linked however to this[1] 'hang Mandela' campaign poster. I'm not positive but I believe he apologised in parliament after Mandela's death. [1] http://i.stack.imgur.com/TeN0o.jpg http://i.stack.imgur.com/TeN0o.jpg
- andyjohnson0 13y ago
  Cameron apologied on behalf of Conservative party [1], not personally. The "Hang Nelson Mandela" material was created by a group, which Cameron was not involved with, within the Federation of Conservative Students. Disclosure: I'm not a Conservative supporter. I dislike what Cameron is currently doing and loathe Thatcher. [1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-we-were-wrong-to-call-mandela-a-terrorist-413684.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-we-wer... [2] http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2013/12/twitter-fact-check-david-cameron-didnt-want-hang-nelson-mandela-80s http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2013/12/twitter-fact-...
SideburnsOfDoom 13y ago
I'm pretty sure that they both "considered Mandela to be a terrorist", and most of the rest of the Conservative party at the time did too. But at the time nobody cared what David Cameron thought.
vixen99 13y ago
"Mandela was leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe which he co-founded. "he coordinated a sabotage campaign against military and government targets, and made plans for a possible guerrilla war if sabotage failed to end apartheid". If that's not terrorism (systematic use of violence as a means of coercion for political purposes) what is? The morality of this is another discussion.
- wnoise 13y ago
  > terrorism (systematic use of violence as a means of coercion for political purposes) All warfare seems to fit under this definition. Commonly explicitly added qualifiers are "against civilians" or "by non-state actors". Another implicit one is "by people the speaker doesn't like".
  - lmm 13y ago
    Right, but we're talking about a non-state actor attacking civilian targets like power stations. Mandela fits any reasonable definition of terrorist.
    - wnoise 13y ago
      Sure, not disputing that, only the definition expressed.

gadders 13y ago

And the Labour governments before Thatcher sold arms to South Africa.

adnam 13y ago

To be fair, he was the commander of Umkhonto we Sizwe which carried out bombings, torture and killings. By anyone's standards he was no peacenik.

gadders 13y ago
Also, this was at the height of the cold war and the ANC was a communist organisation. Nobody in the west wanted South Africa becoming part of the USSR's sphere of influence. There was a large amoung of realpolitik involved.

Zigurd 13y ago

Before he was turned into a Nice Older Gentleman Who Wanted Freedom, Nelson Mandela was a real revolutionary. Governments hate to admit it when revolutionaries win.