4 ms·

I think you skipped over the bit where I explained things. E.g. you're saying "rely on systemd", while I already mentioned we rely on dbus interfaces. However,

by bkor 13y ago

I think you skipped over the bit where I explained things. E.g. you're saying "rely on systemd", while I already mentioned we rely on dbus interfaces. However, there is only sort of 1 implementation (other is a fork), so nothing for *BSD. Now eudev as explained during FOSDEM of 2013 was only started because they didn't understand plus they wanted to understand C. There hasn't been any progress. Further, the packaging of udev in Gentoo caused some bad assumption. Merging of udev and systemd had loads of advantages, but if you bring up eudev again, I'm guessing you're missing out on 12 months of explanations (I attended the eudev presentation at IIRC FOSDEM 2013). Greg (the kernel dev) mentioned during FOSDEM 2014 that he still follows eudev development and there is not much going on. Sometimes bugfixes for bugs introduced by eudev. Regarding most of your other replies: Please explain properly what you mean. "Unix Philosophy" could mean anything for you. I'm more than willing to discuss, but that's impossible if I don't understand you.

rjzzleep 13y ago
> Now eudev as explained during FOSDEM of 2013 was only started because they didn't understand plus they wanted to understand C. There hasn't been any progress. Further, the packaging of udev in Gentoo caused some bad assumption. shrug, maybe, links? https://lwn.net/Articles/529314/ https://lwn.net/Articles/529314/ > Merging of udev and systemd had loads of advantages, does it? http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org/msg05287.html http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.... > but if you bring up eudev again, I'm guessing you're missing out on 12 months of explanations (I attended the eudev presentation at IIRC FOSDEM 2013). Greg (the kernel dev) mentioned during FOSDEM 2014 that he still follows eudev development and there is not much going on. Sometimes bugfixes for bugs introduced by eudev. not surprised, i wouldn't be surprised if the project was dead already. i said the reason it was forked not the reason they maintain it or did i? > Regarding most of your other replies: Please explain properly what you mean. "Unix Philosophy" could mean anything for you. I'm more than willing to discuss, but that's impossible if I don't understand you. sorry, isn't that written in my post? also, sorry, since everyone seems to be sensible to the words unix philosophy even though we're still chaining, and composing those very utilities to this date. forget that word. make it good design. modular, composable, well abstracted(but not too abstracted software). EDIT: also, sorry, i didn't mean to start a rant page on systemd here. i use it on my archlinux, and i'm quite happy there. but I stopped using gnome a long time ago. not only that, i also stopped using gnome components, even though for a long time i was using gnome-session with awesome after going down the tiling wm route.
- bkor 13y ago
  I get the impression that you think I am trying to argue, if so: it is not the case, I'm trying to understand and at the same time to explain. I often explain the same thing various times because I follow lots of mailing list and try to give explanations where I can. So in case my answer is sometimes long is not regarding starting an argument, it is because I gave similar explanations various times before and I want to be thorough. I've followed eudev quite a bit. The initial email and following discussion was very confusing. The LWN link you give is based on various misunderstandings. Eventually 3 eudev developers gave the reasoning I gave before. That's why I find it quite interesting. Those misunderstandings and assumptions is is also why I try to explain things like "portability" as good as possible: To avoid anyone getting bad impressions. E.g. if you'd just read any news site casually you'd assume we're totally pushing systemd, while it is far more nuanced. Also, I am not the author of the blog / blogpost!
- Spittie 13y ago
  Not him, but I think this is the FOSDEM 2013 talk he's referring to: http://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org//2013/crossdistro/Eudev.webm http://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org//2013/crossdistro...
  - rjzzleep 13y ago
    thanks! EDIT: funny, i never saw lu_zero in person. not quite what i expected. but anyway, it looks to me like they clearly did target some systemd attributed issues. they were being very careful not to bash lennart and his friends though, it almost looks like the systemd people are bashing them more than the other way round.

by bkor 13y ago

rjzzleep 13y ago

> Now eudev as explained during FOSDEM of 2013 was only started because they didn't understand plus they wanted to understand C. There hasn't been any progress. Further, the packaging of udev in Gentoo caused some bad assumption. shrug, maybe, links? https://lwn.net/Articles/529314/ https://lwn.net/Articles/529314/ > Merging of udev and systemd had loads of advantages, does it? http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.org/msg05287.html http://www.mail-archive.com/systemd-devel@lists.freedesktop.... > but if you bring up eudev again, I'm guessing you're missing out on 12 months of explanations (I attended the eudev presentation at IIRC FOSDEM 2013). Greg (the kernel dev) mentioned during FOSDEM 2014 that he still follows eudev development and there is not much going on. Sometimes bugfixes for bugs introduced by eudev. not surprised, i wouldn't be surprised if the project was dead already. i said the reason it was forked not the reason they maintain it or did i? > Regarding most of your other replies: Please explain properly what you mean. "Unix Philosophy" could mean anything for you. I'm more than willing to discuss, but that's impossible if I don't understand you. sorry, isn't that written in my post? also, sorry, since everyone seems to be sensible to the words unix philosophy even though we're still chaining, and composing those very utilities to this date. forget that word. make it good design. modular, composable, well abstracted(but not too abstracted software). EDIT: also, sorry, i didn't mean to start a rant page on systemd here. i use it on my archlinux, and i'm quite happy there. but I stopped using gnome a long time ago. not only that, i also stopped using gnome components, even though for a long time i was using gnome-session with awesome after going down the tiling wm route.

bkor 13y ago
I get the impression that you think I am trying to argue, if so: it is not the case, I'm trying to understand and at the same time to explain. I often explain the same thing various times because I follow lots of mailing list and try to give explanations where I can. So in case my answer is sometimes long is not regarding starting an argument, it is because I gave similar explanations various times before and I want to be thorough. I've followed eudev quite a bit. The initial email and following discussion was very confusing. The LWN link you give is based on various misunderstandings. Eventually 3 eudev developers gave the reasoning I gave before. That's why I find it quite interesting. Those misunderstandings and assumptions is is also why I try to explain things like "portability" as good as possible: To avoid anyone getting bad impressions. E.g. if you'd just read any news site casually you'd assume we're totally pushing systemd, while it is far more nuanced. Also, I am not the author of the blog / blogpost!
Spittie 13y ago
Not him, but I think this is the FOSDEM 2013 talk he's referring to: http://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org//2013/crossdistro/Eudev.webm http://mirror.as35701.net/video.fosdem.org//2013/crossdistro...
- rjzzleep 13y ago
  thanks! EDIT: funny, i never saw lu_zero in person. not quite what i expected. but anyway, it looks to me like they clearly did target some systemd attributed issues. they were being very careful not to bash lennart and his friends though, it almost looks like the systemd people are bashing them more than the other way round.