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This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to

This is a pure propaganda piece that shows nothing other than some skill in video editing and constructing a sound track. Think, people, think. Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and masks carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers? If not, then do not distribute this video. Nothing good comes from the kind of violence that these idiots in Kyiv have started. They sit there at the Maidan with a 24 hour diet of patriotic songs and exhortations to valor and courage. If you wanted to set up a camp to train suicide bombers, this is exactly the kind of propaganda barrage that you would use. These people are brainwashed zombies and they are trying to use YOU to infect everyone else in preparation for the REAL zombie apocalypse. This is no joke. Just say no to mindless propaganda and learn to THINK FOR YOURSELF. It wouldn't hurt to read some history and learn how much can be achieved by tireless negotiation and compromise to build a common ground and a political party. The Hitler style of party building never ends well.

sgift 13y ago
> Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and mass carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers? Depends: Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason? Tortured others to make them give up? Well, then I may consider these things if I still have the bravery to be part of such a protest.
- memracom 13y ago
  > Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason? They do that in Canada. I've lived here for 3 years and there have been several incidents in the press. Ukraine has no monopoly on this.
  - middus 13y ago
    What's your point? That it's okay if police in Canada do it, too?
bonzoq 13y ago
Thank you for this comment. Those people occupying the square in Kyiv are incapable of any form of compromise. They refused to leave government buildings that they occupied, their leaders refused government posts they were offered, and for example recently one of the judges that sentenced protestors to house arrest was shot on the street to death. Why won't they peacefully wait for the next elections which will be in just a year? After all the current president is democratically elected and nobody disputes this.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  Weren't they peacefully protesting until they were forcefully disbanded by the police?
  - bonzoq 13y ago
    To my best knowledge and I'm vividly interested in the topic they were not. They were armed from the start. A common type of weapon was a baseball bat with nails. For instance, one of the three oposition leaders, Mr Klitschko (also known for being a world-class heavy-weight boxer), was attacked with a fire extinguisher after he announced a temporary 'cease-fire' to the people on the square. This demonstrates that the protesters, or at least some if not most of them, are not resonable and by no means peaceful. Imagine this type of peaceful protest in any western capital and those protesters would be now peaceful in jail.
    - dmytrish 13y ago
      That's not correct. There were two months of peaceful protest before the Hrushevskogo violence by radicals with bats, there were several raids by police to dismantle Maidan at night when most of people are at home - those efforts were answered peacefully with endurance.
    - bonzoq 13y ago
      Is blocking government buildings for two months paralysing top offices a peaceful protest? This could not last forever. Again changing the government the usual style is more effective than this.
bksenior 13y ago
This attitude is a big problem at best and purposefully dangerous at worst. In most systematic oppressive situations the smaller voice gets very few moments to speak. All issues are complex and worse yet opaque, but videos serve as smoke, and when your eye follows the smoke sometimes you find fire and sometimes you dont. So now people can peruse their own facts and share this video to others who might jump in the fray.
- dmytrish 13y ago
  That's the answer to the comment about "this post does not gratify intellectual curiosity!", thank you. Don't get this video as it is, look for additional facts about Ukrainian protests, make your opinion - that is a noble goal of the video, though it should be stressed more for HN.
- sovande 13y ago
  Propaganda: "Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view". I mean, come on, a beautiful emotional girl, edited video, music, disturbing images. If this is not a text book example I don't know what is. Propaganda, by nature does not show objective facts and depend on "useful idiots". There are countless examples, parent mention Nazi Germany which had its own propaganda ministerium. In recent history, during the first Gulf war, we could read how Iraqi soldiers pulled infants from incubators in Kuwait City, turned out to be false, but was part of legitimise the war. In the second Gulf war, do you remember secretary Powell's united nations WMD speech?
balladeer 13y ago
Honestly memracom, you come across as someone who has never seen it, or worse still, never known it or even tried. What's more shocking is your comment is on the top. > Nothing good comes from the kind of violence that these idiots in Kyiv have started. Pick any revolution and you'll know how any good came out of it. This is the last resort and this is the only way. You know why this is the only way? Because the dictators or the tyrants didn't grab the power as a result of some misunderstanding. It was well planned for years and then executed with precision. Later, once they had it, they made sure, for decades, that the power stays with them and it goes further and further from the people. Now, I have no love for communism, I consider this best for romantic intellectualism on paper but the worst policy in real life. It's not even about that. It's not even anarchy. It's like fighting for your life, you hit with what you got, and what you can. So no, dialogue is not going to work. They know they are corrupt, they know they are tyrants, they know they are evil. What are you gonna negotiate with them? All they want is to remain in power (unchecked) and that is exactly what you don't want. Where does that leave you?
- scrrr 13y ago
  Isn't the president democratically elected though? heh
MarkTee 13y ago
I hope that the rhetoric employed in your comment was deliberate and meant to be ironic...
bayesianhorse 13y ago
Very sad you have to compare the Ukrainian situation to the Occupy movements. The Occupy movements had no clear or single aim, virtually no public support and where mostly non-violent. Even the measures taken against them where mostly in accordance with civil rights, even making unusual allowances for destroying other people's property. The actual violent incidences are nothing compared to the Ukrainian situation. No sign of any civil rights there...
higherpurpose 13y ago
When peaceful protests are made impossible, violent revolutions are inevitable. When you put thousands or tens of thousands of people in a protest, depending on how outraged they are against the government, it might erupt into a violent revolution. It's on the government to not let things get that far, but not when the revolution is already knocking at their doors, but way before that. When they abuse the power, and pass laws banning protests, what do you think is going to happen? Because this is what the Ukranian government did. I think you simply don't understand the situation. You won't understand what it means to have no hope against changing your government, even when the government continues to abuse you, while you do what to change things somehow, and you can't wait decades for it to happen, because the government's abuses are too much too bear. Americans only pretend they want to change things, by liking stuff on Facebook, and then they just accept the situation and live with with, because they are too lazy to even go to a protest anymore. Until Americans learn how to do a protest like what happened with the Arab Spring, and is happening in other countries, I think you need to stop teaching others about how to protest against their governments, deal?

sgift 13y ago

> Do you want to spread this message in your countries? This summer when there is an Occupy or 99% demonstration in your country, do you want young men in helmets and mass carrying baseball bats and molotov cocktails to take charge of it? Will you carry a pistol with you at the demonstration to shoot police officers? Depends: Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason? Tortured others to make them give up? Well, then I may consider these things if I still have the bravery to be part of such a protest.

memracom 13y ago
> Will the police by the time the next big Occupy protests start already have shot people without reason? They do that in Canada. I've lived here for 3 years and there have been several incidents in the press. Ukraine has no monopoly on this.
- middus 13y ago
  What's your point? That it's okay if police in Canada do it, too?

bonzoq 13y ago

Thank you for this comment. Those people occupying the square in Kyiv are incapable of any form of compromise. They refused to leave government buildings that they occupied, their leaders refused government posts they were offered, and for example recently one of the judges that sentenced protestors to house arrest was shot on the street to death. Why won't they peacefully wait for the next elections which will be in just a year? After all the current president is democratically elected and nobody disputes this.

mtrimpe 13y ago
Weren't they peacefully protesting until they were forcefully disbanded by the police?
- bonzoq 13y ago
  To my best knowledge and I'm vividly interested in the topic they were not. They were armed from the start. A common type of weapon was a baseball bat with nails. For instance, one of the three oposition leaders, Mr Klitschko (also known for being a world-class heavy-weight boxer), was attacked with a fire extinguisher after he announced a temporary 'cease-fire' to the people on the square. This demonstrates that the protesters, or at least some if not most of them, are not resonable and by no means peaceful. Imagine this type of peaceful protest in any western capital and those protesters would be now peaceful in jail.
  - dmytrish 13y ago
    That's not correct. There were two months of peaceful protest before the Hrushevskogo violence by radicals with bats, there were several raids by police to dismantle Maidan at night when most of people are at home - those efforts were answered peacefully with endurance.
  - bonzoq 13y ago
    Is blocking government buildings for two months paralysing top offices a peaceful protest? This could not last forever. Again changing the government the usual style is more effective than this.

bksenior 13y ago

This attitude is a big problem at best and purposefully dangerous at worst. In most systematic oppressive situations the smaller voice gets very few moments to speak. All issues are complex and worse yet opaque, but videos serve as smoke, and when your eye follows the smoke sometimes you find fire and sometimes you dont. So now people can peruse their own facts and share this video to others who might jump in the fray.

dmytrish 13y ago
That's the answer to the comment about "this post does not gratify intellectual curiosity!", thank you. Don't get this video as it is, look for additional facts about Ukrainian protests, make your opinion - that is a noble goal of the video, though it should be stressed more for HN.
sovande 13y ago
Propaganda: "Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view". I mean, come on, a beautiful emotional girl, edited video, music, disturbing images. If this is not a text book example I don't know what is. Propaganda, by nature does not show objective facts and depend on "useful idiots". There are countless examples, parent mention Nazi Germany which had its own propaganda ministerium. In recent history, during the first Gulf war, we could read how Iraqi soldiers pulled infants from incubators in Kuwait City, turned out to be false, but was part of legitimise the war. In the second Gulf war, do you remember secretary Powell's united nations WMD speech?

balladeer 13y ago

Honestly memracom, you come across as someone who has never seen it, or worse still, never known it or even tried. What's more shocking is your comment is on the top. > Nothing good comes from the kind of violence that these idiots in Kyiv have started. Pick any revolution and you'll know how any good came out of it. This is the last resort and this is the only way. You know why this is the only way? Because the dictators or the tyrants didn't grab the power as a result of some misunderstanding. It was well planned for years and then executed with precision. Later, once they had it, they made sure, for decades, that the power stays with them and it goes further and further from the people. Now, I have no love for communism, I consider this best for romantic intellectualism on paper but the worst policy in real life. It's not even about that. It's not even anarchy. It's like fighting for your life, you hit with what you got, and what you can. So no, dialogue is not going to work. They know they are corrupt, they know they are tyrants, they know they are evil. What are you gonna negotiate with them? All they want is to remain in power (unchecked) and that is exactly what you don't want. Where does that leave you?

scrrr 13y ago
Isn't the president democratically elected though? heh

MarkTee 13y ago

I hope that the rhetoric employed in your comment was deliberate and meant to be ironic...

bayesianhorse 13y ago

Very sad you have to compare the Ukrainian situation to the Occupy movements. The Occupy movements had no clear or single aim, virtually no public support and where mostly non-violent. Even the measures taken against them where mostly in accordance with civil rights, even making unusual allowances for destroying other people's property. The actual violent incidences are nothing compared to the Ukrainian situation. No sign of any civil rights there...

higherpurpose 13y ago

When peaceful protests are made impossible, violent revolutions are inevitable. When you put thousands or tens of thousands of people in a protest, depending on how outraged they are against the government, it might erupt into a violent revolution. It's on the government to not let things get that far, but not when the revolution is already knocking at their doors, but way before that. When they abuse the power, and pass laws banning protests, what do you think is going to happen? Because this is what the Ukranian government did. I think you simply don't understand the situation. You won't understand what it means to have no hope against changing your government, even when the government continues to abuse you, while you do what to change things somehow, and you can't wait decades for it to happen, because the government's abuses are too much too bear. Americans only pretend they want to change things, by liking stuff on Facebook, and then they just accept the situation and live with with, because they are too lazy to even go to a protest anymore. Until Americans learn how to do a protest like what happened with the Arab Spring, and is happening in other countries, I think you need to stop teaching others about how to protest against their governments, deal?