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The EU was ready to have Ukraine go through another one of their lengthy entry processes where over a period of years requirements are progressively put in plac

by mtrimpe 13y ago

The EU was ready to have Ukraine go through another one of their lengthy entry processes where over a period of years requirements are progressively put in place to enable joining the EU. The current protests erupted when one of the first steps along that path was openly scuttled by Russia applying a huge amount of financial leverage. It is true that only half of Ukraine wants to join the west, but it's also clear that this is a clash between Russian interests and that of the European-minded population in Ukraine; not with EU/US in any significant way. There is a lot of schadenfreude going on of course because it's a huge blemish on Sochi as Putin's PR offensive and Western media are eager to rub it in as much as they can. Ironically enough, according to rumours, this all started because Putin ordered Ukraine's president to 'fix this' before the Olympics started and the unsuccessful police crackdown started the current chain of escalations.

x0054 13y ago
It is NOT true that ONLY half of the population want's to join EU or at least get rid of Putin's influence. Majority of Ukraine wants this!
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  From what I've understood half geographically (which is indeed the majority of the population) wants to actually join the EU and the other half mostly just wants the corruption to stop. Is that not correct?
  - x0054 13y ago
    I found the ethnic chart here fairly accurate http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/09/this-one-map-helps-explain-ukraines-protests/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/09... (I did not read the article, just looked at the charts, which look to be in agreement with my personal experience). I would say that about 20% of the very east part of the country is largely pro Russia, as well as most of Crimea. But even the pro-Russia people don't necessarily think Ukraine should join Russia, almost everyone want's the corruption to stop, as you have pointed out. And I have yet to find a single Ukrainian, Russian speaking or not, who would have anything good to say about Putin. Of course, in most parts of Russia, outside Moscow, you will rarely find anyone who doesn't outright hate that bustard. I think most people want both Yanukovych and Putin out of their country. So maybe you are right, not every one is pro-EU, but most I would say are unti-Putin.
memracom 13y ago
The EU had Ukraine over a barrel and was demanding that they sign a punitive agreement that would have caused even greater hardship than the country is suffering now. Have you read that association agreement? It is brutal. What I want to know is why can't Kyiv negotiate its way into the EU in stages, step by step, and at each stage the agreement would be small enough that it could be explained to the people of Ukraine and they could vote in a referendum based on the facts, rather than some fantasy ideal of "sign document, get rich".
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  This was supposed to be just that, a small first step along the way. I am very curious about the punitive aspect of it though. I've never heard of it and unless it's hidden deep inside the treaty I also can't seem to find any punitive measures there. Do you have any pointers on that?

by mtrimpe 13y ago

x0054 13y ago

It is NOT true that ONLY half of the population want's to join EU or at least get rid of Putin's influence. Majority of Ukraine wants this!

mtrimpe 13y ago
From what I've understood half geographically (which is indeed the majority of the population) wants to actually join the EU and the other half mostly just wants the corruption to stop. Is that not correct?
- x0054 13y ago
  I found the ethnic chart here fairly accurate http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/09/this-one-map-helps-explain-ukraines-protests/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/12/09... (I did not read the article, just looked at the charts, which look to be in agreement with my personal experience). I would say that about 20% of the very east part of the country is largely pro Russia, as well as most of Crimea. But even the pro-Russia people don't necessarily think Ukraine should join Russia, almost everyone want's the corruption to stop, as you have pointed out. And I have yet to find a single Ukrainian, Russian speaking or not, who would have anything good to say about Putin. Of course, in most parts of Russia, outside Moscow, you will rarely find anyone who doesn't outright hate that bustard. I think most people want both Yanukovych and Putin out of their country. So maybe you are right, not every one is pro-EU, but most I would say are unti-Putin.

memracom 13y ago

The EU had Ukraine over a barrel and was demanding that they sign a punitive agreement that would have caused even greater hardship than the country is suffering now. Have you read that association agreement? It is brutal. What I want to know is why can't Kyiv negotiate its way into the EU in stages, step by step, and at each stage the agreement would be small enough that it could be explained to the people of Ukraine and they could vote in a referendum based on the facts, rather than some fantasy ideal of "sign document, get rich".

mtrimpe 13y ago
This was supposed to be just that, a small first step along the way. I am very curious about the punitive aspect of it though. I've never heard of it and unless it's hidden deep inside the treaty I also can't seem to find any punitive measures there. Do you have any pointers on that?