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Lets all forget about the US trying to manipulate the outcome of these riots, already deciding who will be in power. The only reason the US and by proxy, the E

Lets all forget about the US trying to manipulate the outcome of these riots, already deciding who will be in power. The only reason the US and by proxy, the EU cares about the Ukraine is so they can put another load of Patriot Missiles there; to protect Europe from Iran and North Korea of course, it has nothing to do with gaining a strategic advantage over Russia. The cold war never ended.

opionion-matter 13y ago
Finally someone who gets it ... It's not about corruption, it's about control, don't forget that a major gas-line runs through Ukraine, supplying the rest of Europe with gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipelines_to_europe.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipeline...). The future "wars" will be about resources, which gas is. The biggest group of protesters are all right-wing and not at all want to belong to Russia, if you ask the opinion of the other part of the Ukranian people you will hear different stories, we only get to see the destruction and get to hear the pro-right-wing protesters. The statement that everything will be "better" when they will belong to Europe is also a misconception. A lot of people in Ukraine live of a pension that ranges around 100 - 200 Euro per month, now don't think these people can afford food from the neighborhood supermarket, prices are too high, they can only survive by going to markets and buying from farms. Imagine what happens when they will join Europe, prices will inflate, pensions will not go up because there is no money for it ... Etc... There's much more behind it ... Nobody cares about the people, it's all about control and resources.
- emocakes 13y ago
  Same situation in Syria, Only reason the west cares is because they want their 'friendship pipeline', might as well pay radicals to try topple the government so someone who would agree with US policies can be installed. Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. I remember reading an article that had certain people expressing outrage over the fact that Russia would scrap its free trade agreement with Ukraine if they join the EU. They didn't seem to realise that if Russia didn't do this, the russian markets would be flooded with cheap crap from the EU.
  - varjag 13y ago
    > Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. This is not the whole story. Broke in their time nations like Ireland or Portugal benefited immensely from joining the EU. While they are not anywhere near "high performance" still, participating in common labor and trade market with enforced regulations standards pulled them out of mud. Also let's not forget that the alternative is integration into Russian zone of influence. You can doubt the merits of EU, but life as a Russian colony would not bring prosperity (let alone justice) to Ukraine, no matter how many petrodollars circulate in the metropole. Ukrainans will always be an afterthought.
  - xyzzyz 13y ago
    They didn't seem to realise that if Russia didn't do this, the russian markets would be flooded with cheap crap from the EU And now they get expensive, quality stuff from China and Bangladesh indeed, makes sense.
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  The main problem isn't that the US & EU care too much. It's that they don't care nearly enough. Russia cared enough to provide several billion dollar relief loans and a 30% discount on gas prices to cancel the negotiations with the EU. The EU didn't offer any financial aid, because they didn't care particularly much for Ukraine joining the EU.
daliusd 13y ago
OK. Nice. But let's put it straight: what you have written is not contributing anything to discussion. That's like saying that USA people are dumb MacDonald eathing jerks because they have allowed NSA to happen.
- emocakes 13y ago
  Sorry, I don't see how what I said is anything like what you put forward...
  - daliusd 13y ago
    You are spreading some FUD. Foreign politics of US or Russia definitely is in actions here but so what? What if people of Ukraine have actually some ideals and dreams about their future like people in the rest of the world? OK your name contains "emo" so maybe that's why you don't get it but that's ad hominem from my side.
    - emocakes 13y ago
      I certainly hope you were never on any debating team with arguments like those. Of course the people of Ukraine have visions and dreams about their future. What you are seeing in this video though, or on any western media (and eastern media for that matter) is not indicative of what the Ukrainian people actually want. Jumping onto either bandwagon only because of what you read in your twitter feed is just stupid.
      - daliusd 13y ago
        Well, as I'm from Eastern Europe and work in international company it somehow happens that I have some connecting points with Ukrainian people. Your first comment is about US only and doesn't mention Russia. You did that only with your last comment "(and eastern media for that matter)".
- hitchhiker999 13y ago
  ...and in that line of thinking: Your opinion is also not contributing anything to the discussion. A good discussion generally consists of points and opinions. There, I said nothing too.
ckoepp 13y ago
Patriot missiles in Ukraine to protect the US and EU from North Korea and Iran?! Well, get back to your geography homework and have a look where the Ukraine is located...
- emocakes 13y ago
  http://www.cfr.org/missile-defense/us-ballistic-missile-defense/p30607 http://www.cfr.org/missile-defense/us-ballistic-missile-defe... "The Aegis BMD system is the linchpin of the Obama administration's plan for a missile defense umbrella in Europe intended to protect U.S. forces and NATO allies from Iranian short- and medium-range ballistic missiles." Do your homework. (although I did mislabel the missile system, its aegis, not patriot that are being used here)
  - ckoepp 13y ago
    So the protection from Northern Korea is also wrong as the name of the whole system was? Your homework wasn't done properly either, don't you think? :D Well, I'm European and you can't expect me to know details about every military protection plan from the US administration (which are surely a lot), can you? Googeling it wouldn't have returned useful information with two wrong facts I guess ;) ...and by the way: your link said nothing about the Ukraine! :D :D So again, look at google maps!
    - emocakes 13y ago
      theres a word for what I feel when you try to save face after being called out on having no clue. fremdschaemen edit: as for nothing being said about ukraine, well......America hasn't gotten the Ukraine under its grips yet? Do I have to spell this out to you? seriously man.

opionion-matter 13y ago

Finally someone who gets it ... It's not about corruption, it's about control, don't forget that a major gas-line runs through Ukraine, supplying the rest of Europe with gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipelines_to_europe.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Major_russian_gas_pipeline...). The future "wars" will be about resources, which gas is. The biggest group of protesters are all right-wing and not at all want to belong to Russia, if you ask the opinion of the other part of the Ukranian people you will hear different stories, we only get to see the destruction and get to hear the pro-right-wing protesters. The statement that everything will be "better" when they will belong to Europe is also a misconception. A lot of people in Ukraine live of a pension that ranges around 100 - 200 Euro per month, now don't think these people can afford food from the neighborhood supermarket, prices are too high, they can only survive by going to markets and buying from farms. Imagine what happens when they will join Europe, prices will inflate, pensions will not go up because there is no money for it ... Etc... There's much more behind it ... Nobody cares about the people, it's all about control and resources.

emocakes 13y ago
Same situation in Syria, Only reason the west cares is because they want their 'friendship pipeline', might as well pay radicals to try topple the government so someone who would agree with US policies can be installed. Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. I remember reading an article that had certain people expressing outrage over the fact that Russia would scrap its free trade agreement with Ukraine if they join the EU. They didn't seem to realise that if Russia didn't do this, the russian markets would be flooded with cheap crap from the EU.
- varjag 13y ago
  > Joining the EU is probably the worst thing that can happen to Ukraine. Only high performing nations benefit from the EU, everyone else gets screwed by the regulations. This is not the whole story. Broke in their time nations like Ireland or Portugal benefited immensely from joining the EU. While they are not anywhere near "high performance" still, participating in common labor and trade market with enforced regulations standards pulled them out of mud. Also let's not forget that the alternative is integration into Russian zone of influence. You can doubt the merits of EU, but life as a Russian colony would not bring prosperity (let alone justice) to Ukraine, no matter how many petrodollars circulate in the metropole. Ukrainans will always be an afterthought.
- xyzzyz 13y ago
  They didn't seem to realise that if Russia didn't do this, the russian markets would be flooded with cheap crap from the EU And now they get expensive, quality stuff from China and Bangladesh indeed, makes sense.
mtrimpe 13y ago
The main problem isn't that the US & EU care too much. It's that they don't care nearly enough. Russia cared enough to provide several billion dollar relief loans and a 30% discount on gas prices to cancel the negotiations with the EU. The EU didn't offer any financial aid, because they didn't care particularly much for Ukraine joining the EU.

daliusd 13y ago

OK. Nice. But let's put it straight: what you have written is not contributing anything to discussion. That's like saying that USA people are dumb MacDonald eathing jerks because they have allowed NSA to happen.

emocakes 13y ago
Sorry, I don't see how what I said is anything like what you put forward...
- daliusd 13y ago
  You are spreading some FUD. Foreign politics of US or Russia definitely is in actions here but so what? What if people of Ukraine have actually some ideals and dreams about their future like people in the rest of the world? OK your name contains "emo" so maybe that's why you don't get it but that's ad hominem from my side.
  - emocakes 13y ago
    I certainly hope you were never on any debating team with arguments like those. Of course the people of Ukraine have visions and dreams about their future. What you are seeing in this video though, or on any western media (and eastern media for that matter) is not indicative of what the Ukrainian people actually want. Jumping onto either bandwagon only because of what you read in your twitter feed is just stupid.
    - daliusd 13y ago
      Well, as I'm from Eastern Europe and work in international company it somehow happens that I have some connecting points with Ukrainian people. Your first comment is about US only and doesn't mention Russia. You did that only with your last comment "(and eastern media for that matter)".
hitchhiker999 13y ago
...and in that line of thinking: Your opinion is also not contributing anything to the discussion. A good discussion generally consists of points and opinions. There, I said nothing too.

ckoepp 13y ago

Patriot missiles in Ukraine to protect the US and EU from North Korea and Iran?! Well, get back to your geography homework and have a look where the Ukraine is located...

emocakes 13y ago
http://www.cfr.org/missile-defense/us-ballistic-missile-defense/p30607 http://www.cfr.org/missile-defense/us-ballistic-missile-defe... "The Aegis BMD system is the linchpin of the Obama administration's plan for a missile defense umbrella in Europe intended to protect U.S. forces and NATO allies from Iranian short- and medium-range ballistic missiles." Do your homework. (although I did mislabel the missile system, its aegis, not patriot that are being used here)
- ckoepp 13y ago
  So the protection from Northern Korea is also wrong as the name of the whole system was? Your homework wasn't done properly either, don't you think? :D Well, I'm European and you can't expect me to know details about every military protection plan from the US administration (which are surely a lot), can you? Googeling it wouldn't have returned useful information with two wrong facts I guess ;) ...and by the way: your link said nothing about the Ukraine! :D :D So again, look at google maps!
  - emocakes 13y ago
    theres a word for what I feel when you try to save face after being called out on having no clue. fremdschaemen edit: as for nothing being said about ukraine, well......America hasn't gotten the Ukraine under its grips yet? Do I have to spell this out to you? seriously man.