5 ms·

"What would Apple Do?" - Don't Ask

40 points by webwright 17y ago

shizcakes 17y ago
It's called not cutting corners and doing things right. It's long term thinking where profits don't immediately follow - but in Apple's case, thankfully they did. The history of both Apple and Pixar has the companies dangling very close to the precipice of failure, only to be turned around because of love. Love for their products, users, whatever. And it shows, now. Note that I am not an apple fanboy. The only apple product I own is an iPod - but I like the way they operate.
- kierank 17y ago
  It's called not cutting corners and doing things right. You haven't seen Quicktime's H.264 encoder... Personally I think they have just managed to convince people that if something looks and feels good nothing else matters. That and playing with the media and building up hype machines.
  - bjelkeman-again 17y ago
    If Apple is all about hype, when have most of the developers I know switched to using Macs for their laptops, running OS X? Because they believe the hype or because the user experience, even for a developer, is better than the alternatives?
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      "If Apple is all about hype.." Apple isn't all about hype, but there is a lot of hype about their products. But then again that isn't new in consumer products.
  - pistoriusp 17y ago
    I don't agreed with you. Apples products work well. They've have genuine quality to them, not only in build, but also in functionality.
    - blasdel 17y ago
      But that's not remotely true across the board. As the grandparent alluded to, Apple's H.264 encoder is the very worst one around. There are MPEG2 encoders that are competitive bitrate-wise! Not everything Apple releases is gold. The AppStore is a perfect example -- a pile of total shit in every way, that only Apple could get away with because they are so ridiculously competent at everything else that touches it.
      - pistoriusp 17y ago
        I do not conclude that everything is perfect. My point is that Apple has more than just "good looks" which has convinced people to buy their products. But, alas, I fear we argue the same point. ;)
  - jsz0 17y ago
    A big part of the hype machine is producing a product that people are satisfied with and will recommend to others. Word of mouth is better than any amount of TV advertising. For example, as an easy way to avoid being free tech support to my friends and family my default response for the last few years is "I dunno... I use a Mac. Maybe call tech support?" and suddenly most of my friends and family have Macs.
Autre 17y ago
Would you claim, from a programmer's point of view and also from a user's, that Apple is usually doing the Right Thing?
- gommm 17y ago
  I did about one year ago... Now with the debacle around the iphone app registration process and the tightening of warranty rules (with water detectors that set off in tropical countries and void the warranty), I'm not so sure... I think that now that apple is successful again, they have turned back to being arrogant... Now I love mac OS X and I really like most of apple products but I've got a feeling that for apple the customer or developer service is not all that high in the priorities if they can get away with it
  - CamperBob 17y ago
    Keep in mind that Apple has made a lot of mistakes and missteps with the iPhone since its debut. How many of those mistakes haven't been corrected? At first there was no 3G support. There was no GPS. There was no SDK or store ("Just write web apps!") Built-in apps like Maps lacked fundamental features like placemarks. Other core features like landscape keyboards were arbitrarily unavailable in many apps. You couldn't listen to the iPod on Bluetooth headsets. You couldn't record video. The SDK, when it did arrive, came with an obnoxious NDA that kept developers from being able to talk to each other. There's probably a few dozen other points I could make. Basically, while I think Apple's SDK licensing requirements and the App Store's approval process are both giant, poorly-thought-out clusterfucks, I have no reason to think their worst shortcomings won't be fixed. My iPhone has received better post-sale support -- for free -- than any other device or software package I've owned. So I'm slow to add my own voice to those of the complaining masses. Give it a year. If there are still arbitrary goofy rules about no "frameworks" being allowed, and if apps from everybody from Trent Reznor to Google to Joe Nobody are still subject to the approval whims of some random anonymous minimum-wage outsourced troglodyte, then I'll agree that Apple has taken their eye off the ball. But as things stand, they get a lot of slack from me, based on previous willingness to fix their mistakes.
roc 17y ago
The first thing Apple would do is not put any stock in "what would Apple do". Sure, an 'Apple-like' startup would study Apple's approach along with everyone else's. But they'd draw their own conclusions and make their decisions based solely on what's right for their customers at that time.
sanj 17y ago
did you know that you can only photograph Steve Jobs from one side Image search shows both sides: http://bit.ly/13hFil http://bit.ly/13hFil Perhaps that's hyperbole.
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  "Perhaps that's hyperbole." Perhaps, but you'll never see his reflection in anything. Just sayin' ... :)
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
Rob15283 17y ago
I gave my Windows PC away four years ago after buying my first iPod. I now have three Macs, other members of my family account five more, and we all love them. They're not perfect, mind you, but they're much more reliable and easier to use than our PCs ever were. Whatever Apple's doing, I hope they keep doing it.
frankus 17y ago
OT: is it "No Wine Till It's Time" or "No Wine Till Its Time"? I'm pretty sure it's the latter.
- jodrellblank 17y ago
  it's -> it is / it has its -> belonging to it No Wine Until it is Time -> it's (But if you are contracting "until", you should have an apostrophe - 'til).
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - jeroen 17y ago
    Nothing wrong with "till": http://www.thefreedictionary.com/till http://www.thefreedictionary.com/till
  - ck113 17y ago
    Ok, I know it's violently tangential and pretty silly, but I noticed this in the article too. I thought it was interesting because (I'm guessing) it's not a case of the author not knowing the grammatical rules you've just described, but of his not knowing the saying he's quoting. The phrase is "no wine before its time." Not as in "before it is time", but as in "before that wine's appointed time." It was the slogan of the Paul Masson winery, though I can't find a great source for that. (Maybe this one: http://wineeconomist.com/2009/02/10/no-wine-before-its-time/ http://wineeconomist.com/2009/02/10/no-wine-before-its-time/) So we do want the possessive here, not the contraction.
    - jodrellblank 17y ago
      That makes the phrase make a lot more sense.
symesc 17y ago
Apple would probably create something they're proud of and would use themselves. And they'd sell it for real money.
wayneb 17y ago
What would Apple do? They would put OK/Cancel buttons on SOME preferences dialogs (iTunes) but not others (iChat). They would make SOME utility programs quit when you close the last window (System Prefs) but not others (Activity Monitor). The would have a spot for minimized windows, but not opened ones. In short, they would do whatever they could to frustrate you while at the same time brainwashing you to believe that not having a feature is better than having one.

40 points by webwright 17y ago

It's called not cutting corners and doing things right. It's long term thinking where profits don't immediately follow - but in Apple's case, thankfully they did. The history of both Apple and Pixar has the companies dangling very close to the precipice of failure, only to be turned around because of love. Love for their products, users, whatever. And it shows, now. Note that I am not an apple fanboy. The only apple product I own is an iPod - but I like the way they operate.

kierank 17y ago
It's called not cutting corners and doing things right. You haven't seen Quicktime's H.264 encoder... Personally I think they have just managed to convince people that if something looks and feels good nothing else matters. That and playing with the media and building up hype machines.
- bjelkeman-again 17y ago
  If Apple is all about hype, when have most of the developers I know switched to using Macs for their laptops, running OS X? Because they believe the hype or because the user experience, even for a developer, is better than the alternatives?
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    "If Apple is all about hype.." Apple isn't all about hype, but there is a lot of hype about their products. But then again that isn't new in consumer products.
- pistoriusp 17y ago
  I don't agreed with you. Apples products work well. They've have genuine quality to them, not only in build, but also in functionality.
  - blasdel 17y ago
    But that's not remotely true across the board. As the grandparent alluded to, Apple's H.264 encoder is the very worst one around. There are MPEG2 encoders that are competitive bitrate-wise! Not everything Apple releases is gold. The AppStore is a perfect example -- a pile of total shit in every way, that only Apple could get away with because they are so ridiculously competent at everything else that touches it.
    - pistoriusp 17y ago
      I do not conclude that everything is perfect. My point is that Apple has more than just "good looks" which has convinced people to buy their products. But, alas, I fear we argue the same point. ;)
- jsz0 17y ago
  A big part of the hype machine is producing a product that people are satisfied with and will recommend to others. Word of mouth is better than any amount of TV advertising. For example, as an easy way to avoid being free tech support to my friends and family my default response for the last few years is "I dunno... I use a Mac. Maybe call tech support?" and suddenly most of my friends and family have Macs.

Autre 17y ago

Would you claim, from a programmer's point of view and also from a user's, that Apple is usually doing the Right Thing?

gommm 17y ago
I did about one year ago... Now with the debacle around the iphone app registration process and the tightening of warranty rules (with water detectors that set off in tropical countries and void the warranty), I'm not so sure... I think that now that apple is successful again, they have turned back to being arrogant... Now I love mac OS X and I really like most of apple products but I've got a feeling that for apple the customer or developer service is not all that high in the priorities if they can get away with it
- CamperBob 17y ago
  Keep in mind that Apple has made a lot of mistakes and missteps with the iPhone since its debut. How many of those mistakes haven't been corrected? At first there was no 3G support. There was no GPS. There was no SDK or store ("Just write web apps!") Built-in apps like Maps lacked fundamental features like placemarks. Other core features like landscape keyboards were arbitrarily unavailable in many apps. You couldn't listen to the iPod on Bluetooth headsets. You couldn't record video. The SDK, when it did arrive, came with an obnoxious NDA that kept developers from being able to talk to each other. There's probably a few dozen other points I could make. Basically, while I think Apple's SDK licensing requirements and the App Store's approval process are both giant, poorly-thought-out clusterfucks, I have no reason to think their worst shortcomings won't be fixed. My iPhone has received better post-sale support -- for free -- than any other device or software package I've owned. So I'm slow to add my own voice to those of the complaining masses. Give it a year. If there are still arbitrary goofy rules about no "frameworks" being allowed, and if apps from everybody from Trent Reznor to Google to Joe Nobody are still subject to the approval whims of some random anonymous minimum-wage outsourced troglodyte, then I'll agree that Apple has taken their eye off the ball. But as things stand, they get a lot of slack from me, based on previous willingness to fix their mistakes.

roc 17y ago

The first thing Apple would do is not put any stock in "what would Apple do". Sure, an 'Apple-like' startup would study Apple's approach along with everyone else's. But they'd draw their own conclusions and make their decisions based solely on what's right for their customers at that time.

sanj 17y ago

did you know that you can only photograph Steve Jobs from one side Image search shows both sides: http://bit.ly/13hFil http://bit.ly/13hFil Perhaps that's hyperbole.

jamesbritt 17y ago
"Perhaps that's hyperbole." Perhaps, but you'll never see his reflection in anything. Just sayin' ... :)

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

Rob15283 17y ago

I gave my Windows PC away four years ago after buying my first iPod. I now have three Macs, other members of my family account five more, and we all love them. They're not perfect, mind you, but they're much more reliable and easier to use than our PCs ever were. Whatever Apple's doing, I hope they keep doing it.

frankus 17y ago

OT: is it "No Wine Till It's Time" or "No Wine Till Its Time"? I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

jodrellblank 17y ago
it's -> it is / it has its -> belonging to it No Wine Until it is Time -> it's (But if you are contracting "until", you should have an apostrophe - 'til).
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- jeroen 17y ago
  Nothing wrong with "till": http://www.thefreedictionary.com/till http://www.thefreedictionary.com/till
- ck113 17y ago
  Ok, I know it's violently tangential and pretty silly, but I noticed this in the article too. I thought it was interesting because (I'm guessing) it's not a case of the author not knowing the grammatical rules you've just described, but of his not knowing the saying he's quoting. The phrase is "no wine before its time." Not as in "before it is time", but as in "before that wine's appointed time." It was the slogan of the Paul Masson winery, though I can't find a great source for that. (Maybe this one: http://wineeconomist.com/2009/02/10/no-wine-before-its-time/ http://wineeconomist.com/2009/02/10/no-wine-before-its-time/) So we do want the possessive here, not the contraction.
  - jodrellblank 17y ago
    That makes the phrase make a lot more sense.

symesc 17y ago

Apple would probably create something they're proud of and would use themselves. And they'd sell it for real money.

wayneb 17y ago

What would Apple do? They would put OK/Cancel buttons on SOME preferences dialogs (iTunes) but not others (iChat). They would make SOME utility programs quit when you close the last window (System Prefs) but not others (Activity Monitor). The would have a spot for minimized windows, but not opened ones. In short, they would do whatever they could to frustrate you while at the same time brainwashing you to believe that not having a feature is better than having one.