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ABS is an independent pump. It can fail and you'll still be able to slam on the brakes. Also hitting the wrong pedal is not exactly uncommon. People don't like

ABS is an independent pump. It can fail and you'll still be able to slam on the brakes. Also hitting the wrong pedal is not exactly uncommon. People don't like to admit they just made a mistake, hence claims of "unintended acceleration". But just like the claims against Audi back in the day, the modern claims against Toyota appear to be unsubstantiated.

gnaffle 13y ago
I don't think they appear to be, after numerous recalls affecting millions of Toyota cars. That there have been real cases on unintended acceleration related to Toyota is not really in dispute, unless you think Toyota did the recall mainly as a PR effort. Some people might be unwilling to admit that they stepped on the wrong pedal, but the likelyhood that some random HNer would do that and then make a post about it? ABS brakes work by relieving _or_ reinforcing brake pressure, so depending on the system you could end up with uneven, little or no braking action after a failure. Or you could end up with locked wheels.
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  You might want to actually take a look at some of those recalls, they're pretty bogus (like the whole "bring it in so we can adjust the floor mats" thing). And yes, I do believe Toyota did the recall as a PR effort. Take a look at what Audi did instead. They, correctly, stated there was nothing wrong with the cars and they took an insane PR hit and sales plummeted. There continues to be no actual evidence of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. And I don't think HNers are somehow less likely to hit the wrong pedal or refuse to admit it. There's always that possibility that they don't even know they hit the wrong pedal.
  - gnaffle 13y ago
    So, there is NO actual evidence? As in, this is just anecdotal, as in the driver, dealer and technician were all wrong in this instance: http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintende... ..and the 400% increase of unintended acceleration events (from the testimony) starting in 2004 is also a complete accident, or brought on by some witchhunt? Aren't you stretching the limits of what is a reasonable assumption in order to maintain that opinion?

gnaffle 13y ago

I don't think they appear to be, after numerous recalls affecting millions of Toyota cars. That there have been real cases on unintended acceleration related to Toyota is not really in dispute, unless you think Toyota did the recall mainly as a PR effort. Some people might be unwilling to admit that they stepped on the wrong pedal, but the likelyhood that some random HNer would do that and then make a post about it? ABS brakes work by relieving _or_ reinforcing brake pressure, so depending on the system you could end up with uneven, little or no braking action after a failure. Or you could end up with locked wheels.

kllrnohj 13y ago
You might want to actually take a look at some of those recalls, they're pretty bogus (like the whole "bring it in so we can adjust the floor mats" thing). And yes, I do believe Toyota did the recall as a PR effort. Take a look at what Audi did instead. They, correctly, stated there was nothing wrong with the cars and they took an insane PR hit and sales plummeted. There continues to be no actual evidence of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. And I don't think HNers are somehow less likely to hit the wrong pedal or refuse to admit it. There's always that possibility that they don't even know they hit the wrong pedal.
- gnaffle 13y ago
  So, there is NO actual evidence? As in, this is just anecdotal, as in the driver, dealer and technician were all wrong in this instance: http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintended-acceleration-without-floor-mat.html http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-avalon-displays-unintende... ..and the 400% increase of unintended acceleration events (from the testimony) starting in 2004 is also a complete accident, or brought on by some witchhunt? Aren't you stretching the limits of what is a reasonable assumption in order to maintain that opinion?