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As a father of three, with #4 on the way, I can get on board with that last sentence. But there's nothing like being married, having kids, and living the consta

As a father of three, with #4 on the way, I can get on board with that last sentence. But there's nothing like being married, having kids, and living the constant struggle to be a good husband and a good dad. Having a family will make it painfully obvious what your faults are, and how they affect other people. You will have to face up to those faults, and deal with them. If you don't, it's a disaster. Life certainly is complicated, but the good stuff never comes easy (or cheap). You can stay single, be happy, and hide from yourself. Marriage and kids drags you out of bed and forces you see the light of day.

lutusp 13y ago
> You can stay single, be happy, and hide from yourself. Again, I'm not pretending that my choices are for everyone, but I think the case can be persuasively made that an equal number of people hide from themselves by getting married as by staying single. My point is that there are a great number of "right choices", not just one.
- aurelius 13y ago
  I don't disagree. My point was that choosing to be married and have children is a unique undertaking that is extremely challenging, but a lot of goodness can be gained by submitting to the hard work of being a good spouse and a good parent. Sure, you can shoot it down with counter-examples of bad parenting, bad spouses, bad children, etc.. Still, there's nothing like it, and it's worth speaking about the positive aspects of heterosexual marriage in a forum dominated by, quite frankly, people like you who have an irrational, negative, and hostile attitude towards non-gay marriage and families, to the extreme point where mutilation of your reproductive system is an acceptable choice. Yes, there are a great number of "right choices", but some are objectively better than others. A lot better.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > Still, there's nothing like it ... Very true, and in the long term, there's nothing but it -- only those who make this choice are represented in the future population. The rest of us live on, not as organisms, but as memes. > Yes, there are a great number of "right choices", but some are objectively better than others. A lot better. Surely you understand that that sentence contradicts itself, yes? If one "right choice" is a lot better than another, this means there's only one right choice -- the choices aren't equivalent, or even comparable. > Still, there's nothing like it, and it's worth speaking about the positive aspects of heterosexual marriage in a forum dominated by, quite frankly, people like you who have an irrational, negative, and hostile attitude towards non-gay marriage and families, to the extreme point where mutilation of your reproductive system is an acceptable choice. Ah -- now I get it: choosing not to have children is mutilation. I read your post out of order, but in sum it makes its point very clearly. To those reading this thread who expressed doubt that there are people who refuse to accept any choice but marriage and children -- hey! I found one, and there are many more.

lutusp 13y ago

> You can stay single, be happy, and hide from yourself. Again, I'm not pretending that my choices are for everyone, but I think the case can be persuasively made that an equal number of people hide from themselves by getting married as by staying single. My point is that there are a great number of "right choices", not just one.

aurelius 13y ago
I don't disagree. My point was that choosing to be married and have children is a unique undertaking that is extremely challenging, but a lot of goodness can be gained by submitting to the hard work of being a good spouse and a good parent. Sure, you can shoot it down with counter-examples of bad parenting, bad spouses, bad children, etc.. Still, there's nothing like it, and it's worth speaking about the positive aspects of heterosexual marriage in a forum dominated by, quite frankly, people like you who have an irrational, negative, and hostile attitude towards non-gay marriage and families, to the extreme point where mutilation of your reproductive system is an acceptable choice. Yes, there are a great number of "right choices", but some are objectively better than others. A lot better.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > Still, there's nothing like it ... Very true, and in the long term, there's nothing but it -- only those who make this choice are represented in the future population. The rest of us live on, not as organisms, but as memes. > Yes, there are a great number of "right choices", but some are objectively better than others. A lot better. Surely you understand that that sentence contradicts itself, yes? If one "right choice" is a lot better than another, this means there's only one right choice -- the choices aren't equivalent, or even comparable. > Still, there's nothing like it, and it's worth speaking about the positive aspects of heterosexual marriage in a forum dominated by, quite frankly, people like you who have an irrational, negative, and hostile attitude towards non-gay marriage and families, to the extreme point where mutilation of your reproductive system is an acceptable choice. Ah -- now I get it: choosing not to have children is mutilation. I read your post out of order, but in sum it makes its point very clearly. To those reading this thread who expressed doubt that there are people who refuse to accept any choice but marriage and children -- hey! I found one, and there are many more.