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I was very happy to see this one: > Find a Growth Path for Everyone, Especially the Great Ones. I've done a few interviews in the last few years, and whenever

I was very happy to see this one: > Find a Growth Path for Everyone, Especially the Great Ones. I've done a few interviews in the last few years, and whenever I ask about career path, they always stumble, even companies with 50+ employees. "We have a flat org chart." I've pretty much decided that it's up to me to advance my career via freelancing, because as an employee you hit a ceiling very fast.

chrisabrams 13y ago
Flat is a terrible organizational structure for employees who take their career seriously.
- unethical_ban 13y ago
  As opposed to having 9 managers?
  - macspoofing 13y ago
    I'm thinking there's probably a happy medium in between yours and OP's extremes.
  - macspoofing 13y ago
    I'm thinking there's probably a happy medium in between yours and OP's extremes.
- rhizome 13y ago
  "Flat" == non-management and hidden biases
- Deepmist 13y ago
  The flattest organizations I can think of have the most talented and career-driven people in the industry.
dasil003 13y ago
Are you interviewing at startups when what you're looking for is more of a big company job?
- wwweston 13y ago
  I know from experience this isn't always the case, but of all the kinds of businesses out there, a startup should be able to offer the most in terms of advancement. Pre-growth they need people to step into all kinds of roles and meet opportunities that might be there. And when the growth hits these are the companies where you're going to see head count double or triple in a year, which means advancement tends away from a zero-sum game. This is a big part of why startups are supposed to be great opportunities. In a big company job, unless they're also on a significant growth trajectory, advancement tends more towards zero sum, and the role-choosing process tends to favor the dazzling outsider with the shiny resume more over the familiar insider whose warts and gifts (and establishment in their current role!) are apparent. Of course, in practice, startups can work exactly the same way. One of the bits of advice I'd send myself back through time if I could is to ask for the title I'd want to be holding a year or two down the road if the startup sees success. It guides how everyone thinks about you in day-to-day business, and if they're reluctant to hand it over at the start, they'll probably be reluctant to think of you that way later, even if you grow into someone who is fulfilling the role while they grow into a company that needs it.
- pjungwir 13y ago
  I'm not saying I want to go into management. But are there paths to greater responsibility, greater salary, greater leadership? Do you offer technical and non-technical training? If I did want to go into management, can you speak to that progression? Do you have a vision for senior people who want to stay in tech? All the companies I talked with seemed surprised I'd even ask such questions. I'm not saying it's easy, but if you don't have any story here, I'll make my own opportunities working for myself.
  - kamaal 13y ago
    The term growth-outside-management is meaningless in almost all companies. A few companies have it, but those are momentary times until they grow, and once the systems are in place. They will put in a middle management guy have it run. Slowly you will the architects would have been phased out and replaced by managers.
mcv 13y ago
> I've pretty much decided that it's up to me to advance my career via freelancing, because as an employee you hit a ceiling very fast. Same here. As a freelancer, I control my own career part, decide what I work on, in what direction I develop myself, what projects and responsibilities to take on, and I invest in my own training. When I was an employee, I always joined a great company that did great things, learned a lot of new stuff, and then hit a ceiling. I learned to move on after about 2 years. Longer than that at one company means stagnation for me.

chrisabrams 13y ago

Flat is a terrible organizational structure for employees who take their career seriously.

unethical_ban 13y ago
As opposed to having 9 managers?
- macspoofing 13y ago
  I'm thinking there's probably a happy medium in between yours and OP's extremes.
- macspoofing 13y ago
  I'm thinking there's probably a happy medium in between yours and OP's extremes.
rhizome 13y ago
"Flat" == non-management and hidden biases
Deepmist 13y ago
The flattest organizations I can think of have the most talented and career-driven people in the industry.

dasil003 13y ago

Are you interviewing at startups when what you're looking for is more of a big company job?

wwweston 13y ago
I know from experience this isn't always the case, but of all the kinds of businesses out there, a startup should be able to offer the most in terms of advancement. Pre-growth they need people to step into all kinds of roles and meet opportunities that might be there. And when the growth hits these are the companies where you're going to see head count double or triple in a year, which means advancement tends away from a zero-sum game. This is a big part of why startups are supposed to be great opportunities. In a big company job, unless they're also on a significant growth trajectory, advancement tends more towards zero sum, and the role-choosing process tends to favor the dazzling outsider with the shiny resume more over the familiar insider whose warts and gifts (and establishment in their current role!) are apparent. Of course, in practice, startups can work exactly the same way. One of the bits of advice I'd send myself back through time if I could is to ask for the title I'd want to be holding a year or two down the road if the startup sees success. It guides how everyone thinks about you in day-to-day business, and if they're reluctant to hand it over at the start, they'll probably be reluctant to think of you that way later, even if you grow into someone who is fulfilling the role while they grow into a company that needs it.
pjungwir 13y ago
I'm not saying I want to go into management. But are there paths to greater responsibility, greater salary, greater leadership? Do you offer technical and non-technical training? If I did want to go into management, can you speak to that progression? Do you have a vision for senior people who want to stay in tech? All the companies I talked with seemed surprised I'd even ask such questions. I'm not saying it's easy, but if you don't have any story here, I'll make my own opportunities working for myself.
- kamaal 13y ago
  The term growth-outside-management is meaningless in almost all companies. A few companies have it, but those are momentary times until they grow, and once the systems are in place. They will put in a middle management guy have it run. Slowly you will the architects would have been phased out and replaced by managers.

mcv 13y ago

> I've pretty much decided that it's up to me to advance my career via freelancing, because as an employee you hit a ceiling very fast. Same here. As a freelancer, I control my own career part, decide what I work on, in what direction I develop myself, what projects and responsibilities to take on, and I invest in my own training. When I was an employee, I always joined a great company that did great things, learned a lot of new stuff, and then hit a ceiling. I learned to move on after about 2 years. Longer than that at one company means stagnation for me.