3 ms·

At what size company? Start-ups or in general? That doesn't sound right to me, but I don't have anything to back that up by my anecdotal experience.

Periodic 13y ago
I think if you come out of a good school with the right degree and jump right into a good company you can expect market-rate pay or better. If you get a CS degree from Stanford and join Google you'll be doing fine. But maybe you didn't have the money or quite the grades and extracurriculars so you get your degree from San Jose State or City College of San Francisco, you could still be a very good programmer, but you'll have to start by taking lower-paying jobs while you prove it and learn, and at most companies you won't get much of a raise unless you threaten to leave. A friend of mine ended up a technical lead of about a dozen people. He got there by leaving his company for another company, leaving them to go back to the first company, then leaving them again to go back to the second company as a lead. Each time he got a substantial pay raise. For the four years before he adopted this tactic he was getting the customary 5% or so as a mid-level programmer. In the four years he employed this tactic his salary almost doubled.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  > "If you get a CS degree from Stanford and join Google you'll be doing fine." I disagree. The problem isn't that people are paying below market - Google pays just fine for new grads. You won't find many places paying more than Google does for fresh grads. The problem is that the pay scale for software developers increases rapidly with experience, at a rate no company (Google included) is willing to keep pace with. A new undergrad may be worth $100K starting. Assuming they're reasonably good performers, in two years he/she will be worth $130K+. I don't know of any company that gives 15% annual raises like clockwork, even to solid performers. Personally I've doubled my salary in about 5 years in the industry. That works out to 15%, yearly. Is there any company out there that's willing to keep pace? I've been at companies where the typical non-promotion raise is 1-2%, that's laughable in a market where salaries are skyrocketing.
  - lukejduncan 13y ago
    I've seen companies who do keep that pay increase pace. Not that it's the normal.
smtddr 13y ago
My own anecdotal is from when I started at&t out of college in 2001. The tiny 1 to 3% annual salary raises cannot compare to the quantum-leaps after hopping through 3 start-ups. Also, I never negotiate salary. I just tell them what I was making before and accept whatever offer they give so long as it's higher than my current. When I look at Glassdoor.com, I seem to be doing okay... so no complaints from me. :)
- sokoloff 13y ago
  You're probably leaving money on the table, in exchange for avoiding a couple 15-minute exchanges on salary. If you modify your approach to include a request for a small increase or a sign-on bonus after they've made their offer, you will find 1/3-1/2 the time, you'll get it, and when it's in base salary, that will enhance the ratchet effect that you've experienced. Some places will make their best (or nearly best) offer first. Others will have a broader range and more flexibility for someone they really want on-board. It doesn't cost or take much to ask once at the start, when they're at their most enamored with the endless possibilities you'll enable. Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the simplicity and ease of your approach. I'm just suggesting your can get more return from very little differential effort.

Periodic 13y ago

I think if you come out of a good school with the right degree and jump right into a good company you can expect market-rate pay or better. If you get a CS degree from Stanford and join Google you'll be doing fine. But maybe you didn't have the money or quite the grades and extracurriculars so you get your degree from San Jose State or City College of San Francisco, you could still be a very good programmer, but you'll have to start by taking lower-paying jobs while you prove it and learn, and at most companies you won't get much of a raise unless you threaten to leave. A friend of mine ended up a technical lead of about a dozen people. He got there by leaving his company for another company, leaving them to go back to the first company, then leaving them again to go back to the second company as a lead. Each time he got a substantial pay raise. For the four years before he adopted this tactic he was getting the customary 5% or so as a mid-level programmer. In the four years he employed this tactic his salary almost doubled.

potatolicious 13y ago
> "If you get a CS degree from Stanford and join Google you'll be doing fine." I disagree. The problem isn't that people are paying below market - Google pays just fine for new grads. You won't find many places paying more than Google does for fresh grads. The problem is that the pay scale for software developers increases rapidly with experience, at a rate no company (Google included) is willing to keep pace with. A new undergrad may be worth $100K starting. Assuming they're reasonably good performers, in two years he/she will be worth $130K+. I don't know of any company that gives 15% annual raises like clockwork, even to solid performers. Personally I've doubled my salary in about 5 years in the industry. That works out to 15%, yearly. Is there any company out there that's willing to keep pace? I've been at companies where the typical non-promotion raise is 1-2%, that's laughable in a market where salaries are skyrocketing.
- lukejduncan 13y ago
  I've seen companies who do keep that pay increase pace. Not that it's the normal.

smtddr 13y ago

My own anecdotal is from when I started at&t out of college in 2001. The tiny 1 to 3% annual salary raises cannot compare to the quantum-leaps after hopping through 3 start-ups. Also, I never negotiate salary. I just tell them what I was making before and accept whatever offer they give so long as it's higher than my current. When I look at Glassdoor.com, I seem to be doing okay... so no complaints from me. :)

sokoloff 13y ago
You're probably leaving money on the table, in exchange for avoiding a couple 15-minute exchanges on salary. If you modify your approach to include a request for a small increase or a sign-on bonus after they've made their offer, you will find 1/3-1/2 the time, you'll get it, and when it's in base salary, that will enhance the ratchet effect that you've experienced. Some places will make their best (or nearly best) offer first. Others will have a broader range and more flexibility for someone they really want on-board. It doesn't cost or take much to ask once at the start, when they're at their most enamored with the endless possibilities you'll enable. Don't get me wrong; I appreciate the simplicity and ease of your approach. I'm just suggesting your can get more return from very little differential effort.