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The market is clearly betting against MtGox having a fix soon. Based on this article it seems like their revenues are strong but their customer acquisition and

by rdmcfee 13y ago

The market is clearly betting against MtGox having a fix soon. Based on this article it seems like their revenues are strong but their customer acquisition and retention will suffer immensely if they don't manage to re-instate withdrawals. I find it hard to imagine that they won't solve the withdrawal concern soon. Especially with today's update.

kolev 13y ago
The withdrawals will be supposedly enabled after the 20th with limits! They are clearly insolvent and I hope to see Mark Karpeles and Roger Ver in jail sool! "The Bitcoin Satan" (i.e. Roger Ver) is actually soliciting people on Bitcoin Forums to buy their coins and dollars at Mt.Gox at a discounted rate, i.e. they are trying with Mark to steal coins from customers and cover up the loss from theft that's most probably have happened. This clearly proves that Bitcoin and especially exchanges should be heavily regulated. People have lots millions of dollars due to the games Mt.Gox is playing with them - in a normal market, they would be jailed and jailed hard. Similar story with BitSpend, all the Bitcoin gambling sites, honest Ponzi sites like (ponzi.io), and similar - there are horror stories over at Reddit and Bitcoin Forums of people losing their last penny trying to recover from the price drop by gambling. I am sorry, but Bitcoin really is a criminals' sandbox recently! It's a good piece of technology in the wrong hands!
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Well said. This is the really interesting thing about BitCoin for me, making cryptocurrency work without regulation. I appreciate that folks are trying. It touches on the fundamental difference between so called 'legal tender' and markers for barter.
  - kolev 13y ago
    We're not comparing apples to apples to say Bitcoin transactions are free or cheap. Credit cards are a mature piece of technology that has optimized the costs over the years. The credit cards processing fee is something that has so much behind it (consumer protection, interest-free crediting, etc.) - you cannot compare Bitcoin to this at all. There's no consumer protection with Bitcoin - you're on your own, so, compare transaction fees of cash to Bitcoin, not credit card or remittance fees to Bitcoin if you want to be taken seriously! Yeah, it works with the young and inexperienced who don't know all the complexity behind the status quo.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      The reason you need pervasive consumer protection using CCs is because the system is fundamentally flawed, relying on every single merchant not to be a scammer or aciddentally leak the info. With BTC (and similar systems), you can pay for protection when you need it, while having a cheaper service when you don't. And this isn't something discovered with BTC, some of us live in countries with sane payment systems that are cheaper than CCs. They just don't work abroad, which nowadays is a major limitation.
      - paulhauggis 13y ago
        where is this protection for bitcoin? every exchange has been hacked or ripped off by the owners.
        icebraining 13y ago
        Exchanges are only needed to buy and sell Bitcoins¹; after that, you can move them out permanently, whereas with CCs, you can never be sure that the merchant didn't record (maliciously or not) your CC info. You also only need to trust one exchange, not N merchants, so it's much easier to do proper evaluation. ¹ Technically, you never actually need an exchange at all, there are other ways of getting Bitcoins.
        kolev 13y ago
        Exchanges hold most of the hot bitcoins, so, they are a very lucrative target for both external, and internal theft. They definitely need to be regulated. One thing about the exchanges is how greedy they really are for the crappy service they provide. Most stock trading is a fixed fee and all exchanges charge a percentage.
        paulhauggis 13y ago
        The average user doesn't understand Bitcoin and will most likely always use an exchange.
      - kolev 13y ago
- jraines 13y ago
  People have lost every last penny trying to recover from ______ by gambling
  - kolev 13y ago
    Bitcoin gambling has a very low entry point.
    - Crito 13y ago
      Are you kidding? You need to be rather computer literate to gamble with bitcoin, and you have to be aware that gambling with bitcoin exists, and you have to buy bitcoin which is still a high bar just by itself. The high bar to bitcoin gambling is evidenced by the fact that relatively few people are doing it, for how many people love to gamble. Bitcoin gambling is astronomically dwarfed by other forms of gambling. It's a fucking rounding error.
      - kolev 13y ago
        I am talking about the people who already have bitcoins.
        Crito 13y ago
        By that logic, racing Italian sports cars at track days is a low barrier to entry hobby. I mean, it obviously isn't, but if you are willing to ignore the "acquire an Italian sports car and know how to drive it" part...
        kolev 13y ago
        You can do it from the convenience of your laptop - get bitcoins from Coinbase and send them to the dice site. With Instant Buy, you can get $1,000 instantly.
        Crito 13y ago
- jnbiche 13y ago
  You want to ban Bitcoin gambling more that it's already banned? So betting is only OK when it's a state lottery?? I can most decidedly assure you that people where I live routinely spend their last pennies on state lottery tickets. And the people who lost some of their money by investing in a volatile new market, then tried to gamble their way back to a break-even point and lost? They bear no responsibility for this? Instead, your solution is to outlaw gambling? Sometimes I despair of my fellow man. By the way, I don't even gamble (in my entire life, I've gambled one single time, not counting two-dollar NCAA basketball pools in HS). But it really disturbs me how people want to just outlaw what people should be free to do if they wish. Do you have any idea what they're doing to gamblers because of laws like you're advocating? They're sending in SWAT squads in massive raids, where the "target" frequently ends up shot, or at least their dog. What about alcohol, do you want to outlaw that? It sure causes a lot of problems. Why not just return to Prohibition? On the other hand, if some powerful Bitcoin player somehow has insider information on Gox's (in)solvency (quite possible) and is still trying to sell Gox coins or Gox bucks that he/she knows to be worthless, that's clearly crossed the line into fraud, and existing fraud regulations are more than adequate for that. Absolutely no additional regulation is needed to prosecute that (see what's happening to pirateat40). However, I have not seen that this is happening, so I'd like to see the thread you're referring to. As it is, your position on gambling makes me extremely skeptical toward your claims. Edit: OK, edited out "are you fucking kidding me". I apologize to fellow HNers for such an emotional comment -- first time ever (check my history). But I'm so tired of people calling for more laws when we're so close to living in a police state.
  - kolev 13y ago
    People should stop using vulgarism as crutches for their frail thoughts. State lottery is regulated. It also physically prevents people from putting money into it, which they cannot afford to lose (well, there are services that automate this for you at a price). Gambling is addictive and more often ruins lives than it makes people rich - I know this first-hand as I have relatives who just cannot get out of the vicious circle! I have no doubt that in the future all gambling will be prohibited and will be severely prosecuted.
    - 13y ago
- pmorici 13y ago
  I don't see why you need new rules and regulations for what is clearly fraud. Roger Ver, is that the same guy that is associated with that btc mine that makes 80k /day but tried to declare bankruptcy to avoid contract obligations to deliver several thousand coins for under $20 each?
  - dustcoin 13y ago
    You are thinking of Peter Venesses (Coinlab/Alydian), not Roger Ver.
pmorici 13y ago
Anyone that thinks this is going to turn out well for people with money in Gox is off their rocker. Just saw this this morning from a veteran of the online poker industry talking about how the Gox situation has strong parallels to online poker companies that saw a rash of insolvencies due to funds seizures, theft, and banking issues. Just cemented my view. http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/ http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/

by rdmcfee 13y ago

kolev 13y ago

The withdrawals will be supposedly enabled after the 20th with limits! They are clearly insolvent and I hope to see Mark Karpeles and Roger Ver in jail sool! "The Bitcoin Satan" (i.e. Roger Ver) is actually soliciting people on Bitcoin Forums to buy their coins and dollars at Mt.Gox at a discounted rate, i.e. they are trying with Mark to steal coins from customers and cover up the loss from theft that's most probably have happened. This clearly proves that Bitcoin and especially exchanges should be heavily regulated. People have lots millions of dollars due to the games Mt.Gox is playing with them - in a normal market, they would be jailed and jailed hard. Similar story with BitSpend, all the Bitcoin gambling sites, honest Ponzi sites like (ponzi.io), and similar - there are horror stories over at Reddit and Bitcoin Forums of people losing their last penny trying to recover from the price drop by gambling. I am sorry, but Bitcoin really is a criminals' sandbox recently! It's a good piece of technology in the wrong hands!

ChuckMcM 13y ago
Well said. This is the really interesting thing about BitCoin for me, making cryptocurrency work without regulation. I appreciate that folks are trying. It touches on the fundamental difference between so called 'legal tender' and markers for barter.
- kolev 13y ago
  We're not comparing apples to apples to say Bitcoin transactions are free or cheap. Credit cards are a mature piece of technology that has optimized the costs over the years. The credit cards processing fee is something that has so much behind it (consumer protection, interest-free crediting, etc.) - you cannot compare Bitcoin to this at all. There's no consumer protection with Bitcoin - you're on your own, so, compare transaction fees of cash to Bitcoin, not credit card or remittance fees to Bitcoin if you want to be taken seriously! Yeah, it works with the young and inexperienced who don't know all the complexity behind the status quo.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    The reason you need pervasive consumer protection using CCs is because the system is fundamentally flawed, relying on every single merchant not to be a scammer or aciddentally leak the info. With BTC (and similar systems), you can pay for protection when you need it, while having a cheaper service when you don't. And this isn't something discovered with BTC, some of us live in countries with sane payment systems that are cheaper than CCs. They just don't work abroad, which nowadays is a major limitation.
    - paulhauggis 13y ago
      where is this protection for bitcoin? every exchange has been hacked or ripped off by the owners.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        Exchanges are only needed to buy and sell Bitcoins¹; after that, you can move them out permanently, whereas with CCs, you can never be sure that the merchant didn't record (maliciously or not) your CC info. You also only need to trust one exchange, not N merchants, so it's much easier to do proper evaluation. ¹ Technically, you never actually need an exchange at all, there are other ways of getting Bitcoins.
        kolev 13y ago
        Exchanges hold most of the hot bitcoins, so, they are a very lucrative target for both external, and internal theft. They definitely need to be regulated. One thing about the exchanges is how greedy they really are for the crappy service they provide. Most stock trading is a fixed fee and all exchanges charge a percentage.
        paulhauggis 13y ago
        The average user doesn't understand Bitcoin and will most likely always use an exchange.
    - kolev 13y ago
jraines 13y ago
People have lost every last penny trying to recover from ______ by gambling
- kolev 13y ago
  Bitcoin gambling has a very low entry point.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Are you kidding? You need to be rather computer literate to gamble with bitcoin, and you have to be aware that gambling with bitcoin exists, and you have to buy bitcoin which is still a high bar just by itself. The high bar to bitcoin gambling is evidenced by the fact that relatively few people are doing it, for how many people love to gamble. Bitcoin gambling is astronomically dwarfed by other forms of gambling. It's a fucking rounding error.
    - kolev 13y ago
      I am talking about the people who already have bitcoins.
      - Crito 13y ago
        By that logic, racing Italian sports cars at track days is a low barrier to entry hobby. I mean, it obviously isn't, but if you are willing to ignore the "acquire an Italian sports car and know how to drive it" part...
        kolev 13y ago
        You can do it from the convenience of your laptop - get bitcoins from Coinbase and send them to the dice site. With Instant Buy, you can get $1,000 instantly.
        Crito 13y ago
jnbiche 13y ago
You want to ban Bitcoin gambling more that it's already banned? So betting is only OK when it's a state lottery?? I can most decidedly assure you that people where I live routinely spend their last pennies on state lottery tickets. And the people who lost some of their money by investing in a volatile new market, then tried to gamble their way back to a break-even point and lost? They bear no responsibility for this? Instead, your solution is to outlaw gambling? Sometimes I despair of my fellow man. By the way, I don't even gamble (in my entire life, I've gambled one single time, not counting two-dollar NCAA basketball pools in HS). But it really disturbs me how people want to just outlaw what people should be free to do if they wish. Do you have any idea what they're doing to gamblers because of laws like you're advocating? They're sending in SWAT squads in massive raids, where the "target" frequently ends up shot, or at least their dog. What about alcohol, do you want to outlaw that? It sure causes a lot of problems. Why not just return to Prohibition? On the other hand, if some powerful Bitcoin player somehow has insider information on Gox's (in)solvency (quite possible) and is still trying to sell Gox coins or Gox bucks that he/she knows to be worthless, that's clearly crossed the line into fraud, and existing fraud regulations are more than adequate for that. Absolutely no additional regulation is needed to prosecute that (see what's happening to pirateat40). However, I have not seen that this is happening, so I'd like to see the thread you're referring to. As it is, your position on gambling makes me extremely skeptical toward your claims. Edit: OK, edited out "are you fucking kidding me". I apologize to fellow HNers for such an emotional comment -- first time ever (check my history). But I'm so tired of people calling for more laws when we're so close to living in a police state.
- kolev 13y ago
  People should stop using vulgarism as crutches for their frail thoughts. State lottery is regulated. It also physically prevents people from putting money into it, which they cannot afford to lose (well, there are services that automate this for you at a price). Gambling is addictive and more often ruins lives than it makes people rich - I know this first-hand as I have relatives who just cannot get out of the vicious circle! I have no doubt that in the future all gambling will be prohibited and will be severely prosecuted.
  - 13y ago
pmorici 13y ago
I don't see why you need new rules and regulations for what is clearly fraud. Roger Ver, is that the same guy that is associated with that btc mine that makes 80k /day but tried to declare bankruptcy to avoid contract obligations to deliver several thousand coins for under $20 each?
- dustcoin 13y ago
  You are thinking of Peter Venesses (Coinlab/Alydian), not Roger Ver.

pmorici 13y ago

Anyone that thinks this is going to turn out well for people with money in Gox is off their rocker. Just saw this this morning from a veteran of the online poker industry talking about how the Gox situation has strong parallels to online poker companies that saw a rash of insolvencies due to funds seizures, theft, and banking issues. Just cemented my view. http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/ http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/