4 ms·

I speak as someone who's done - and failed with - a startup in Europe. Several aspects of the US, and specifically Silicon Valley, are certainly an appropriate

by Udo 13y ago

I speak as someone who's done - and failed with - a startup in Europe. Several aspects of the US, and specifically Silicon Valley, are certainly an appropriate target for envy and they're not easy to replicate in Europe for different reasons. Easy access to funding, a funding culture, a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture, a big tech-savvy audience, a spirit of creativity and experimentalism, a socially and economically mobile milieu... there are so many things that we just don't have in Europe. It's no accident that (what feels like) most German web startups are copycats of successful American products, sometimes down to the look and feel of the product. Building new stuff is actively discouraged here, nobody likes doing bold experiments: not customers, not investors, not even developers. Looking at seed funding behavior is a very shallow thing to do in the face of these big hulking cultural differences. Playing around with money, having an exploratory approach to your career, risking failure - those things are just not done in Europe.

TillE 13y ago
The successful ones are quite different. SoundCloud, for example, is fairly unique in its concept, interface, and business model.
- Udo 13y ago
  True, but I'm not saying they're all like that. You'll always find outliers. It's just more difficult, not insurmountable.
mattmanser 13y ago
What a load of crap. The only thing I see.missing is the money and I'm in a relatively small city in the UK, Nottingham. There are tech events packed with people, startup events packed with people, a bio-tech incubator, two university incubators and a thriving creative scene. The thing missing is funding, SV doesn't have an exclusive grip on the rest.
- Udo 13y ago
  > The only thing I see.missing is the money It might not be all about what you see. To be fair, the same applies to me. I didn't want to imply that the industry lacks good people in Europe either. But your examples do go in the direction I'm talking about. Big bio tech and university-tie-ins are not risky, experimental, high stakes affairs. They're predictable and respectable.
allochthon 13y ago
a funding culture, a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture These are two counter tendencies. The funding is available in Silicon Valley, but then your company might end up being loaded with startup bros and senior leaders in order to please the VCs. The bootstrapping is an attempt to avoid this and related outcomes (e.g., losing control over the company).
- Udo 13y ago
  Nevertheless, it's good to be at a place where both are valid options for non-bigshot founders.
jseliger 13y ago
Easy access to funding, a funding culture, a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture, a big tech-savvy audience, a spirit of creativity and experimentalism, a socially and economically mobile milieu... there are so many things that we just don't have in Europe. In her new book The Upside of Down Megan McArdle also writes about the cultural (and legal) tolerance for failure that the U.S. has. In her review of the evidence Europe has stringent bankruptcy laws and views people who try and don't succeed at things poorly, while people in the U.S. view those who try and don't succeed well.
Jd 13y ago
Yes, I'm an American who worked on a startup in Berlin, with a similar and sad evaluation. re: Easy access to funding -- absolutely, I think it is the risk adversity that kills everything, esp. at the angel stage. re: a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture -- Most Europeans don't want to work long hours either and it's legally questionable to ask them to. that's a show stopper. re: Building new stuff is actively discouraged here, nobody likes doing bold experiments: not customers, not investors, not even developers. -- Sadly have to agree with you based on my experience in Berlin. Even downloading a new app on a phone is regarded with a good deal of suspicion. re: spirit of creativity and experimentalism -- I have a hard time knowing why this is, but I've written on it before. May interest you: http://fractastical.com/2013/06/05/a-developers-introduction-to-germany/ http://fractastical.com/2013/06/05/a-developers-introduction... Overall, I also find that Europeans for the most part don't want to do billion dollar startups. They seem to think that there is something wrong with the large amounts of money involved, and saying that this is your goal is more likely to meet (in my experience) with criticism than encouragement. This seems true across central Europe (France & Germany) while the big successes mostly come from foreigners (i.e. Skype, SAP). But on the other hand, billion dollar startups create lots of fairly wealthy people that can then be angel investors and pump up the ecosystem. I don't see any other way for the system to evolve, but I was amazed by the degree to which there was a mental barrier against any sort of large scale success.
- twobits 13y ago
  "I also find that Europeans for the most part don't want to do billion dollar startups" There is indeed a diff in europe. But having said that, I would like to argue a few things. a) Anyone would want to get a billion dollars. b) How many billion dollars startups do you actually know? Not in the money given to acquire them. But in the actual value. In the "wtf, they gave how much for what?!" category. I am going off in a tangent, but I think an important and relevant one. $ is the world currency. It's backed by the us military. You print billions out of thin air, faster than I actually breath. In my, maybe naive eyes, billions for bs web or mobile services, among other things, translates to me to: "Holly f*. There is so much inflation coming my way, from all that printing, it's not even funny. I am a couple of years, tops, away from being forcefully transformed from "financially ok", to "fubar-ed, can you give me 500$ to get a piece of bread, pls?" It's easier to be "large", when you are the empire, print billions out of thin air, and "bring democracy" to the rest. How many billions was the "let's make a language called 'C'" startup? ..I read billions for bs, and I see inflation and destruction. ..Maybe it's just me.

by Udo 13y ago

TillE 13y ago

The successful ones are quite different. SoundCloud, for example, is fairly unique in its concept, interface, and business model.

Udo 13y ago
True, but I'm not saying they're all like that. You'll always find outliers. It's just more difficult, not insurmountable.

mattmanser 13y ago

What a load of crap. The only thing I see.missing is the money and I'm in a relatively small city in the UK, Nottingham. There are tech events packed with people, startup events packed with people, a bio-tech incubator, two university incubators and a thriving creative scene. The thing missing is funding, SV doesn't have an exclusive grip on the rest.

Udo 13y ago
> The only thing I see.missing is the money It might not be all about what you see. To be fair, the same applies to me. I didn't want to imply that the industry lacks good people in Europe either. But your examples do go in the direction I'm talking about. Big bio tech and university-tie-ins are not risky, experimental, high stakes affairs. They're predictable and respectable.

allochthon 13y ago

a funding culture, a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture These are two counter tendencies. The funding is available in Silicon Valley, but then your company might end up being loaded with startup bros and senior leaders in order to please the VCs. The bootstrapping is an attempt to avoid this and related outcomes (e.g., losing control over the company).

Udo 13y ago
Nevertheless, it's good to be at a place where both are valid options for non-bigshot founders.

jseliger 13y ago

Easy access to funding, a funding culture, a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture, a big tech-savvy audience, a spirit of creativity and experimentalism, a socially and economically mobile milieu... there are so many things that we just don't have in Europe. In her new book The Upside of Down Megan McArdle also writes about the cultural (and legal) tolerance for failure that the U.S. has. In her review of the evidence Europe has stringent bankruptcy laws and views people who try and don't succeed at things poorly, while people in the U.S. view those who try and don't succeed well.

Jd 13y ago

Yes, I'm an American who worked on a startup in Berlin, with a similar and sad evaluation. re: Easy access to funding -- absolutely, I think it is the risk adversity that kills everything, esp. at the angel stage. re: a bootstrap entrepreneurial culture -- Most Europeans don't want to work long hours either and it's legally questionable to ask them to. that's a show stopper. re: Building new stuff is actively discouraged here, nobody likes doing bold experiments: not customers, not investors, not even developers. -- Sadly have to agree with you based on my experience in Berlin. Even downloading a new app on a phone is regarded with a good deal of suspicion. re: spirit of creativity and experimentalism -- I have a hard time knowing why this is, but I've written on it before. May interest you: http://fractastical.com/2013/06/05/a-developers-introduction-to-germany/ http://fractastical.com/2013/06/05/a-developers-introduction... Overall, I also find that Europeans for the most part don't want to do billion dollar startups. They seem to think that there is something wrong with the large amounts of money involved, and saying that this is your goal is more likely to meet (in my experience) with criticism than encouragement. This seems true across central Europe (France & Germany) while the big successes mostly come from foreigners (i.e. Skype, SAP). But on the other hand, billion dollar startups create lots of fairly wealthy people that can then be angel investors and pump up the ecosystem. I don't see any other way for the system to evolve, but I was amazed by the degree to which there was a mental barrier against any sort of large scale success.

twobits 13y ago
"I also find that Europeans for the most part don't want to do billion dollar startups" There is indeed a diff in europe. But having said that, I would like to argue a few things. a) Anyone would want to get a billion dollars. b) How many billion dollars startups do you actually know? Not in the money given to acquire them. But in the actual value. In the "wtf, they gave how much for what?!" category. I am going off in a tangent, but I think an important and relevant one. $ is the world currency. It's backed by the us military. You print billions out of thin air, faster than I actually breath. In my, maybe naive eyes, billions for bs web or mobile services, among other things, translates to me to: "Holly f*. There is so much inflation coming my way, from all that printing, it's not even funny. I am a couple of years, tops, away from being forcefully transformed from "financially ok", to "fubar-ed, can you give me 500$ to get a piece of bread, pls?" It's easier to be "large", when you are the empire, print billions out of thin air, and "bring democracy" to the rest. How many billions was the "let's make a language called 'C'" startup? ..I read billions for bs, and I see inflation and destruction. ..Maybe it's just me.