8 ms·

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes. "Front-end engineering" is a craft that happens to be relevant right now. It's an artifact of the particular client-server computing

by hglaser 13y ago

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes. "Front-end engineering" is a craft that happens to be relevant right now. It's an artifact of the particular client-server computing model we currently have. It is not likely to be relevant 5-10-20 years from now. "Computer Science" is (among other things) a discipline that will give you the ability to learn the next craft, and the next one after that. It will keep you relevant your whole career. Definitely go to college if you have the opportunity to do so.

hackNightly 13y ago
Care to elaborate on what potentially could replace the 'client-server computing model' in 5-10-20 years? This seems far fetched IMHO. I can only envision a future where systems place more emphasis on UI and design. I imagine this future because as our computers grow in complexity, the interfaces used to control them need to become more simple and interaction-focused.
- wellboy 13y ago
  Mobile, wearable technology come to mind.
  - hackNightly 13y ago
    Yes but these devices still require a large amount of UI design/interaction. I don't see how this would change the 'front-end' ecosystem much
    - jeorgun 13y ago
      Given how much "front-end technologies" seems to translate to "javascript / html / css" nowadays, I'd be incredibly shocked if it didn't.
      - hackNightly 13y ago
        Considering the fact that these are the de-facto UI languages for the World's most widely deployed platform (web browsers), do you think that javascript / html / css are going anywhere anytime soon?
        danieldk 13y ago
        1994 you: Considering the fact that these are the de-facto UI languages for the World's most widely deployed platform (Windows), do you think that the Win16 API is anywhere anytime soon?
        hackNightly 13y ago
        While I see your point, you're comparing a closed-source proprietary platform to the web. Apples to oranges if you ask me
        Crito 13y ago
        Even if Windows had been using X11/Tk or whatever back then, it wouldn't have made a difference.
    - ProAm 13y ago
      Look at how different UI is from mainframe/green screens to the client-server apps of the 90s-00s to todays mainly web front ends. It has changed drastically over the past 40 years but still pretty much does the same thing. Provides the user a way to interact with computer/software/data.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  If everything is apps in the future then "front end" technologies may be compiled native code like Objective C or Java or even Python. If your computer only uses voice, the "front end" technology stack is very different from what we have today for websites. If government and market forces cause the web industry to stagnate over time (see: net neutrality, pervasive privacy concerns), then the hot industry of the future might be something totally different.
drewblaisdell 13y ago
I think this is a weak argument that ignores some of what the OP wrote. A CS degree alone will not keep him relevant 5/10/20 years from now. The industry is, for the most part, a meritocracy, and he will need to keep his skill set up-to-date with industry trends forever. In my experience, good CS students tend to learn more outside of class. Based on the OP's post, I would bet that he is sufficiently capable of self-educating.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
ronaldx 13y ago
A completely opposite summary is just as valid, in my opinion. "Front-end engineering" is a cutting-edge craft and a working knowledge of this will develop into the next important thing 5-10-20 years from now. "Computer Science", as it is taught, can be 30+ years out of date, depending on the course. Few academics have functional industry experience and many are regurgitating theory that they learned a long time in the past, not fully updated for existing practice.
- scep12 13y ago
  > a working knowledge of this will develop into the next important thing 5-10-20 years from now Do you know something the rest of us do not about "the next important thing"? Surely you can imagine a scenario in which your "cutting-edge" skills become devalued. If history is any indication of things to come, such a scenario isn't that far-fetched. > "Computer Science", as it is taught, can be 30+ years out of date, depending on the course You're right - some courses are garbage. But when I was in school, the courses I took on databases, algorithms, AI, and mobile robotics were extremely relevant and still are today. Most CS curriculums teach fundamentals and concepts, which have never gone out of style. When you say "30+ years out of date" the first thing that comes to mind is a computer engineering class I took based on the intel 8085 (1977), which was about 30 years old when I took the class. Writing assembly code for the 8085 happened to be one of the most interesting and important parts of my CS career, despite being 30+ years out of date compared to the Java and Python code I write these days.
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    Not the OP, and I would've phrased the comment a little less strongly. However, I'm a full stack engineer who came up from the front-end engineering ranks, and I've successfully gone through two major tech switches (desktop -> web and web -> mobile). The specific tech stack you use as a frontend engineer will almost certainly be obsolete in 5 years. The general skills you learn as a frontend engineer will not be, and that combination of skills are not taught anywhere, particularly not college. If you're doing it right, you learn way more as a FE-SWE than just Javascript. You learn design concepts like hierarchy, line, typography, color theory, etc. You learn information architecture and how to present only what the user needs to see at a given time to them. You learn how to structure a large application through MVC, MVP, component trees, etc. You learn how to keep it responsive and low-latency. You learn concurrency and how to deal with user interactions that may occur in the middle of your app doing something. You learn animation and motion design. You learn security, input validation, never to trust user input, and how to design the UI so that invalid inputs aren't even possible. Those are widely transferrable skills. As long as there are computers and people who use them, we'll need to figure out how to interface between them. And as more fundamental CS concepts become available to mainstream, non-tech-savvy users, the need for frontend engineering skills only becomes greater (witness companies like GitHub, DropBox, and Twitter, which are based upon bringing UNIX utilities that have existed for 40 years to mainstream audiences). I loved my compiler design and machine architecture courses, but demand for those skills is very specialized, and you have to be very good at it to get a job doing them. I'm actually one of the lucky ones who has used my compiler skills in a large corporation, but honestly frontend engineering has opened up many, many more doors for me.
capkutay 13y ago
Don't forget there'll be some steady jobs in the tech industry that OP would automatically be disqualified from for not having a college degree. Also, if a job offering is competitive and there are multiple candidates with the same skillset and experience as OP, the person with the college degree might get the benefit of the doubt.
- collyw 13y ago
  I think it really depends if you want to go the corporate soulless uninteresting but well paid and secure work route.
  - capkutay 13y ago
    Not necessarily. You don't have to be a big soulless corporation to prefer candidates with a college degree.
- ronaldx 13y ago
  This is true, and absolutely worth considering. As long as you have access to enough of the market that open-minded employers are competing for your work, I believe that this wouldn't harm your salary or propsects in a meaningful way.

by hglaser 13y ago

hackNightly 13y ago

Care to elaborate on what potentially could replace the 'client-server computing model' in 5-10-20 years? This seems far fetched IMHO. I can only envision a future where systems place more emphasis on UI and design. I imagine this future because as our computers grow in complexity, the interfaces used to control them need to become more simple and interaction-focused.

wellboy 13y ago
Mobile, wearable technology come to mind.
- hackNightly 13y ago
  Yes but these devices still require a large amount of UI design/interaction. I don't see how this would change the 'front-end' ecosystem much
  - jeorgun 13y ago
    Given how much "front-end technologies" seems to translate to "javascript / html / css" nowadays, I'd be incredibly shocked if it didn't.
    - hackNightly 13y ago
      Considering the fact that these are the de-facto UI languages for the World's most widely deployed platform (web browsers), do you think that javascript / html / css are going anywhere anytime soon?
      - danieldk 13y ago
        1994 you: Considering the fact that these are the de-facto UI languages for the World's most widely deployed platform (Windows), do you think that the Win16 API is anywhere anytime soon?
        hackNightly 13y ago
        While I see your point, you're comparing a closed-source proprietary platform to the web. Apples to oranges if you ask me
        Crito 13y ago
        Even if Windows had been using X11/Tk or whatever back then, it wouldn't have made a difference.
  - ProAm 13y ago
    Look at how different UI is from mainframe/green screens to the client-server apps of the 90s-00s to todays mainly web front ends. It has changed drastically over the past 40 years but still pretty much does the same thing. Provides the user a way to interact with computer/software/data.
snowwrestler 13y ago
If everything is apps in the future then "front end" technologies may be compiled native code like Objective C or Java or even Python. If your computer only uses voice, the "front end" technology stack is very different from what we have today for websites. If government and market forces cause the web industry to stagnate over time (see: net neutrality, pervasive privacy concerns), then the hot industry of the future might be something totally different.

drewblaisdell 13y ago

I think this is a weak argument that ignores some of what the OP wrote. A CS degree alone will not keep him relevant 5/10/20 years from now. The industry is, for the most part, a meritocracy, and he will need to keep his skill set up-to-date with industry trends forever. In my experience, good CS students tend to learn more outside of class. Based on the OP's post, I would bet that he is sufficiently capable of self-educating.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

ronaldx 13y ago

A completely opposite summary is just as valid, in my opinion. "Front-end engineering" is a cutting-edge craft and a working knowledge of this will develop into the next important thing 5-10-20 years from now. "Computer Science", as it is taught, can be 30+ years out of date, depending on the course. Few academics have functional industry experience and many are regurgitating theory that they learned a long time in the past, not fully updated for existing practice.

scep12 13y ago
> a working knowledge of this will develop into the next important thing 5-10-20 years from now Do you know something the rest of us do not about "the next important thing"? Surely you can imagine a scenario in which your "cutting-edge" skills become devalued. If history is any indication of things to come, such a scenario isn't that far-fetched. > "Computer Science", as it is taught, can be 30+ years out of date, depending on the course You're right - some courses are garbage. But when I was in school, the courses I took on databases, algorithms, AI, and mobile robotics were extremely relevant and still are today. Most CS curriculums teach fundamentals and concepts, which have never gone out of style. When you say "30+ years out of date" the first thing that comes to mind is a computer engineering class I took based on the intel 8085 (1977), which was about 30 years old when I took the class. Writing assembly code for the 8085 happened to be one of the most interesting and important parts of my CS career, despite being 30+ years out of date compared to the Java and Python code I write these days.
- nostrademons 13y ago
  Not the OP, and I would've phrased the comment a little less strongly. However, I'm a full stack engineer who came up from the front-end engineering ranks, and I've successfully gone through two major tech switches (desktop -> web and web -> mobile). The specific tech stack you use as a frontend engineer will almost certainly be obsolete in 5 years. The general skills you learn as a frontend engineer will not be, and that combination of skills are not taught anywhere, particularly not college. If you're doing it right, you learn way more as a FE-SWE than just Javascript. You learn design concepts like hierarchy, line, typography, color theory, etc. You learn information architecture and how to present only what the user needs to see at a given time to them. You learn how to structure a large application through MVC, MVP, component trees, etc. You learn how to keep it responsive and low-latency. You learn concurrency and how to deal with user interactions that may occur in the middle of your app doing something. You learn animation and motion design. You learn security, input validation, never to trust user input, and how to design the UI so that invalid inputs aren't even possible. Those are widely transferrable skills. As long as there are computers and people who use them, we'll need to figure out how to interface between them. And as more fundamental CS concepts become available to mainstream, non-tech-savvy users, the need for frontend engineering skills only becomes greater (witness companies like GitHub, DropBox, and Twitter, which are based upon bringing UNIX utilities that have existed for 40 years to mainstream audiences). I loved my compiler design and machine architecture courses, but demand for those skills is very specialized, and you have to be very good at it to get a job doing them. I'm actually one of the lucky ones who has used my compiler skills in a large corporation, but honestly frontend engineering has opened up many, many more doors for me.

capkutay 13y ago

Don't forget there'll be some steady jobs in the tech industry that OP would automatically be disqualified from for not having a college degree. Also, if a job offering is competitive and there are multiple candidates with the same skillset and experience as OP, the person with the college degree might get the benefit of the doubt.

collyw 13y ago
I think it really depends if you want to go the corporate soulless uninteresting but well paid and secure work route.
- capkutay 13y ago
  Not necessarily. You don't have to be a big soulless corporation to prefer candidates with a college degree.
ronaldx 13y ago
This is true, and absolutely worth considering. As long as you have access to enough of the market that open-minded employers are competing for your work, I believe that this wouldn't harm your salary or propsects in a meaningful way.