4 ms·

A better "up" would be East, oriented to the Galaxy as a whole, rather than Earth's roll relative to the Sun.

eCa 13y ago
Compasses points to the poles, not the centre of the universe. I can see some advantages to have compasses and maps point the same way.
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  Except, of course, that they don't. Magnetic north is up to5 degrees off of our polar axis (center of rotation). "Up to" not because it moves but depending on where you're standing they may line up, as they nearly do here in Iowa.
  - GregBuchholz 13y ago
    Magnetic declination can vary by more than 5 degrees. Imagine standing between true north and magnetic north, then the compass will be 180 degrees off. Also, the location of the magnetic north pole changes over time, and moves about 35 miles per year. (Wikipedia has a cool animation of the changes over time since the year 1590). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      Aren't a lot of sea navigators sailing between the north pole and magnetic north :) I suppose that will change though.
- decentrality 13y ago
  Sure, but spatial orientation and temporal orientation are too important to leave to arbitrary tool particulars. It's really bad for the mind. I get your point ( with correction by @JoeAltmaier ) but with GPS and the like being the `new` tool, and with them needing new thought rather than continuation of the old "because we always did it that way"... I'd definitely go East in the future... along with changing calendars away from solar orientation ( Gregorian primarily ). But as with most things involving the masses, this all falls into the category of why most use Metric versus Imperial, and why that is such a radical change to expect. Still, great to see a post questioning "up" ...
  - lmm 13y ago
    I don't think that's a fair comparison. Metric measures have genuine practical advantages in terms of unit conversions. Switching to East-oriented maps would just be change for the sake of change. (Also a map projection distorts at the poles, so it's best if the poles are in uninhabited areas that ships don't sail through)
    - decentrality 13y ago
      Having a spatial orientation relative to the universe is of practical value to conscious individuals. People with minds have a frame of reference. Updating that is important, since our reality is bounded by our mental frame as much by that, if not more by that, than by our knowledge. I get what you mean, if this were still a boat-based world. I am saying we are not in a boat-based world now. Our consciousness can re-orient. Since we don't live in a boat-based world for the most part, it'd be more helpful to tend toward an orientation to a place where people have minds more often than people have ships. Part of why the world is the way it is, is because we don't allow our minds and the mental framework of the masses follow forward to an overall update to what in the world is actually worth orienting to. So it's not change for change's sake. It's updating to be true to what we know, giving our minds the benefit of advancing onto a better framework. Digital maps don't distort for curves. They just keep going with the surface of the planet. Remaining true to a boat-based world is a disservice to mind-having individuals.
      - cgh 13y ago
        Okay, but there are also practical concerns, like those of us who use map and compass in our lives (for me, geocaching and hunting). It's very well to wave your arms and talk about being a "mind-having individual" but it won't help you navigate in the Coast Mountains.
  - 7952 13y ago
    The easiest rule would surely be based on the spin of the planet (the equator). Anyway, maps sometimes do have a Y axis that is not pointed towards north, and the north arrow is used to orient yourself (even Google maps can do this). Changing that would just confuse everyone. BTW, GPS devices initially calculate their location in geocentric coordinates from the centre of the earth with the reference plane aligned to the equator. It is calculated from the orbital parameters of the satellites.
baddox 13y ago
Earth's orientation in the galaxy isn't relevant when making maps of Earth's surface.

eCa 13y ago

Compasses points to the poles, not the centre of the universe. I can see some advantages to have compasses and maps point the same way.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Except, of course, that they don't. Magnetic north is up to5 degrees off of our polar axis (center of rotation). "Up to" not because it moves but depending on where you're standing they may line up, as they nearly do here in Iowa.
- GregBuchholz 13y ago
  Magnetic declination can vary by more than 5 degrees. Imagine standing between true north and magnetic north, then the compass will be 180 degrees off. Also, the location of the magnetic north pole changes over time, and moves about 35 miles per year. (Wikipedia has a cool animation of the changes over time since the year 1590). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Magnetic_Pole
  - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
    Aren't a lot of sea navigators sailing between the north pole and magnetic north :) I suppose that will change though.
decentrality 13y ago
Sure, but spatial orientation and temporal orientation are too important to leave to arbitrary tool particulars. It's really bad for the mind. I get your point ( with correction by @JoeAltmaier ) but with GPS and the like being the `new` tool, and with them needing new thought rather than continuation of the old "because we always did it that way"... I'd definitely go East in the future... along with changing calendars away from solar orientation ( Gregorian primarily ). But as with most things involving the masses, this all falls into the category of why most use Metric versus Imperial, and why that is such a radical change to expect. Still, great to see a post questioning "up" ...
- lmm 13y ago
  I don't think that's a fair comparison. Metric measures have genuine practical advantages in terms of unit conversions. Switching to East-oriented maps would just be change for the sake of change. (Also a map projection distorts at the poles, so it's best if the poles are in uninhabited areas that ships don't sail through)
  - decentrality 13y ago
    Having a spatial orientation relative to the universe is of practical value to conscious individuals. People with minds have a frame of reference. Updating that is important, since our reality is bounded by our mental frame as much by that, if not more by that, than by our knowledge. I get what you mean, if this were still a boat-based world. I am saying we are not in a boat-based world now. Our consciousness can re-orient. Since we don't live in a boat-based world for the most part, it'd be more helpful to tend toward an orientation to a place where people have minds more often than people have ships. Part of why the world is the way it is, is because we don't allow our minds and the mental framework of the masses follow forward to an overall update to what in the world is actually worth orienting to. So it's not change for change's sake. It's updating to be true to what we know, giving our minds the benefit of advancing onto a better framework. Digital maps don't distort for curves. They just keep going with the surface of the planet. Remaining true to a boat-based world is a disservice to mind-having individuals.
    - cgh 13y ago
      Okay, but there are also practical concerns, like those of us who use map and compass in our lives (for me, geocaching and hunting). It's very well to wave your arms and talk about being a "mind-having individual" but it won't help you navigate in the Coast Mountains.
- 7952 13y ago
  The easiest rule would surely be based on the spin of the planet (the equator). Anyway, maps sometimes do have a Y axis that is not pointed towards north, and the north arrow is used to orient yourself (even Google maps can do this). Changing that would just confuse everyone. BTW, GPS devices initially calculate their location in geocentric coordinates from the centre of the earth with the reference plane aligned to the equator. It is calculated from the orbital parameters of the satellites.

baddox 13y ago

Earth's orientation in the galaxy isn't relevant when making maps of Earth's surface.