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It's about time someone did something about US spying... Not sure this will make it better for those of us living in the US.

• halfdan 13y ago
  Counter-espionage is sadly the wrong way to go.. we already had a cold war and this seems to become cold war part 2.0 with everyone hiding behind their iron curtains.
  • th0br0 13y ago
    Most likely this won't lead to anything and is just a press release meant to appease the masses... I don't believe that our politicians would truly suddenly make this roundabout turn. Besides, the article only says that this is being considered and that talks (probably) haven't even started yet.
    • cnvogel 13y ago
      Well... it's a significant change of words, though. Up to recently, the German cabinet claimed to be content with the affirmation of U.S. officials to only work within the boundaries of German and U.S. laws. The level of blind trust in "our allies" was astonishing, for example they called allegations backed by the Snowden documents "unfounded". Few months ago they've sent a few secretaries over to negotiate an non-binding letter of "no spy" intent, that the U.S. obviously didn't want to agree to (because no autonomous state would). So, now they finally seem to have come to the conclusion that indeed we (as a state) are spied upon, for a myriad of reasons, which is quite an accomplishment for these naíve guys and girls.
  • qgi 13y ago
    Sad, but they've got basically forced to take action by the US and UK agencies. This is somewhat worse than the cold war because the US and Europe do consider each other to be allies, not enemies.
    • res0nat0r 13y ago
      They were surely already doing this, just making an issue about it in the press to score some political points.
    • anonymousab 13y ago
      Not really. It's already been established that the German government was partway complicit in GCHQs activities in the region.
  • smtddr 13y ago
    >>this seems to become cold war part 2.0 Based on the Snowden leak, I don't think the USA knew Cold War 1.0 was over.
    • f_salmon 13y ago
      For the US, this is an economic war. It's about gaining/keeping a competitive advantage over the other players.
• f_salmon 13y ago
  Unfortunately, this is not about fighting mass surveillance, at all. This is just about defending against US spying. Mass surveillance and spying are NOT the same. Spying is/was a targeted measure and will probably always exist, but mass surveillance targets every single citizen and therefor means "Death to democracy", even if you won't feel it, because it happens gradually and behind-the-scenes ("unfortunate events" will happen more often and we will not know why, how and who). EDIT: And don't count on ANY government to do anything significant about mass surveillance. Every govt wants it, because it simply means "power over the people". Nothing will happen without an immense pressure from the citizen and consumer. Besides voting, we have a "purchasing power" and we should start using it.
  • lispm 13y ago
    > Spying is/was a targeted measure and will probably always exist That's naive. Germany has not defended itself enough against US activities in Germany. This is especially ugly, since the US has many military and intelligence installations in Germany. Germany does not have the same in the US. If the US wants to stay in Germany, they need to adjust the targets of their operations. Remember, the US military is no longer defending West Europe from its bases in Germany. It runs world-wide military and intelligence operations from Germany. We have bases from which wars in Asia and Africa are supported or even coordinated (the US central military command for Africa is located here). It's not spying as Germans 'spy' on the US. It's a completely different thing and scale.