3 ms·

You're right, if you consider only the monetary value of the gadgets in question, and ignore other results of fixing your own things (like personal satisfaction

by ctz 13y ago

You're right, if you consider only the monetary value of the gadgets in question, and ignore other results of fixing your own things (like personal satisfaction, added general knowledge of how things work, value of social interaction in groups like Restart, ability to build or fix higher value devices in the future, externalities in the replacement gadget's production not reflected in the price, etc.) jwz's quote would be better restated: "Linux is only free if your time has no value, and you know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

coldtea 13y ago
>jwz's quote would be better restated: "Linux is only free if your time has no value, and you know the price of everything and the value of nothing." Really? Who said that if you have other stuff to do with your live you are a cynic? If you just use a Win/Apple box and get done with it, instead of getting "social interaction in Linux groups, general knowledge of how OSes work, etc", and go and DO stuff with your computer -- that implies you know the value of nothing? How about the stuff you actually want to do with the computer (practice law or medicine, write books, create graphics, work for an NGO, control equipment for your lab, etc etc) are more valuable to you that what you get out of mingling with the Linux crowd?
- VLM 13y ago
  "If you just use a Win... box" How do you do that? Someone volunteered me to be support for my entire family, and I can assure you that things that take seconds in linux take hours/days in windows land if not worse, and there'a a huge number of problems in windows land that simply don't exist in linux land. The primary troubleshooting / repair method seems to be the reinstall OS and all drivers and software, some of which randomly disappears from the internet since last reinstall. Viruses and spyware everywhere, not ready for the enterprise or anything financial related. No software repos. I don't use windows personally other than one gaming partition, but as a family support guy I assure you its a nightmare out there in windows land. OSX not so bad, at least on a desktop. Its competitive with linux. Takes a lot of domain specific knowledge to know when a job is cheaper on OSX or linux. Most people don't do law, medicine, write books, graphics art, work for NGO, or control equipment in a lab. Almost no one does any of that stuff. For most people you install Debian and Chrome and leave them alone. They'll probably need working flash player. That's about it.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
    I've had a linux machine at work since new year's , and I've been an OSX user since 2004. I'd say that my I've lost more time to that linux machine in two months than I've lost to OSX in two years, and that's not even counting the microannoyances in the UI.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Wow do you do that? Someone volunteered me to be support for my entire family, and I can assure you that things that take seconds in linux take hours/days in windows land if not worse, and there'a a huge number of problems in windows land that simply don't exist in linux land. Well, hundrends of millions of people can and do use Windows just fine, even for power-user, advanced stuff, and the same people would be totally lost in front of Linux. Heck, my dad uses Windows and Office, and he got his first computer when he was 50+, and he haven't even went to college. And he learned how to browse, send email, use Excel, take images with Norton Ghost, use torrent (!), pirate some niche software he wanted etc, re-install windows, etc. The way Windows are designed most problems can be solved by reinstalling, using some GUI app etc. For us it might sound funny, but reinstalling the OS as troubleshooting is quite a fast process, and not as hair tearing as delving into the console and understanding intricasies of package managers, third party drivers and the like in Linux. Plus drivers are always available, since it's the number one OS and manufacturers oblige. >Most people don't do law, medicine, write books, graphics art, work for NGO, or control equipment in a lab. Almost no one does any of that stuff. Actually millions of people do that stuff every day. Lawyers and doctors ARE millions of people. Scientists ARE millions of people. People working at an NGO are millions of people. Heck, billions of people work with Office and its ilk of apps for their white collar job. And I've never met a user who just surfs the internet. Perhaps some too old people. Sooner or later, all the new users I've seen want to write a document, download movies, view and edit their compact camera photos, burn a DVD, burn their CD collection, listen to music, etc etc.

by ctz 13y ago

coldtea 13y ago

>jwz's quote would be better restated: "Linux is only free if your time has no value, and you know the price of everything and the value of nothing." Really? Who said that if you have other stuff to do with your live you are a cynic? If you just use a Win/Apple box and get done with it, instead of getting "social interaction in Linux groups, general knowledge of how OSes work, etc", and go and DO stuff with your computer -- that implies you know the value of nothing? How about the stuff you actually want to do with the computer (practice law or medicine, write books, create graphics, work for an NGO, control equipment for your lab, etc etc) are more valuable to you that what you get out of mingling with the Linux crowd?

VLM 13y ago
"If you just use a Win... box" How do you do that? Someone volunteered me to be support for my entire family, and I can assure you that things that take seconds in linux take hours/days in windows land if not worse, and there'a a huge number of problems in windows land that simply don't exist in linux land. The primary troubleshooting / repair method seems to be the reinstall OS and all drivers and software, some of which randomly disappears from the internet since last reinstall. Viruses and spyware everywhere, not ready for the enterprise or anything financial related. No software repos. I don't use windows personally other than one gaming partition, but as a family support guy I assure you its a nightmare out there in windows land. OSX not so bad, at least on a desktop. Its competitive with linux. Takes a lot of domain specific knowledge to know when a job is cheaper on OSX or linux. Most people don't do law, medicine, write books, graphics art, work for NGO, or control equipment in a lab. Almost no one does any of that stuff. For most people you install Debian and Chrome and leave them alone. They'll probably need working flash player. That's about it.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  I've had a linux machine at work since new year's , and I've been an OSX user since 2004. I'd say that my I've lost more time to that linux machine in two months than I've lost to OSX in two years, and that's not even counting the microannoyances in the UI.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >Wow do you do that? Someone volunteered me to be support for my entire family, and I can assure you that things that take seconds in linux take hours/days in windows land if not worse, and there'a a huge number of problems in windows land that simply don't exist in linux land. Well, hundrends of millions of people can and do use Windows just fine, even for power-user, advanced stuff, and the same people would be totally lost in front of Linux. Heck, my dad uses Windows and Office, and he got his first computer when he was 50+, and he haven't even went to college. And he learned how to browse, send email, use Excel, take images with Norton Ghost, use torrent (!), pirate some niche software he wanted etc, re-install windows, etc. The way Windows are designed most problems can be solved by reinstalling, using some GUI app etc. For us it might sound funny, but reinstalling the OS as troubleshooting is quite a fast process, and not as hair tearing as delving into the console and understanding intricasies of package managers, third party drivers and the like in Linux. Plus drivers are always available, since it's the number one OS and manufacturers oblige. >Most people don't do law, medicine, write books, graphics art, work for NGO, or control equipment in a lab. Almost no one does any of that stuff. Actually millions of people do that stuff every day. Lawyers and doctors ARE millions of people. Scientists ARE millions of people. People working at an NGO are millions of people. Heck, billions of people work with Office and its ilk of apps for their white collar job. And I've never met a user who just surfs the internet. Perhaps some too old people. Sooner or later, all the new users I've seen want to write a document, download movies, view and edit their compact camera photos, burn a DVD, burn their CD collection, listen to music, etc etc.