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Also, Seth Lloyd turns the question [0] on its head and suggests that it's silly to call the universe anything but a computer, since it contains systems that ar
by evanb 13y ago
Also, Seth Lloyd turns the question [0] on its head and suggests that it's silly to call the universe anything but a computer, since it contains systems that are Turing Complete. What is it computing? Its own history / dynamics.
That said, it is different to ask if we're in a simulation vs. in a computer---the word simulation makes one think of some programmer compiling some source code and executing some program: it entails agency.
[0] http://www.randomhouse.com/kvpa/lloyd/ http://www.randomhouse.com/kvpa/lloyd/
- lutusp 13y agoGood point. When we ask whether this is all a simulation, I think most people assume an agency, a wizard behind a curtain. But the question doesn't necessarily imply that form. But think -- until about 50 years ago we wouldn't have necessarily thought of the universe as a computer, because we didn't think of things in terms of computers until recently. My point is this conversation and its terminology is only possible because of the present state of technical evolution -- in us and in our machines. > What is it computing? Its own history / dynamics. Yes, agreed. On a scale smaller than the universe, we can examine evolution by natural selection as an example of an algorithm that works in a reliable, predictable way (predictable only in a statistical sense). I prefer evolution as an example of a natural algorithmic model because it's easy to express, but produces so much complexity.
- lotsofmangos 13y agoBy that logic, my house is a computer as it contains many systems that are Turing complete.
- evanb 13y agoThe logic should more precisely be: the dynamics of the universe, ie. the things that physics allows, includes the operation of Turing machines, so that the physical laws are at least Turing complete. Thus, the universe, from a computational point of view, a computer.
- dinkumthinkum 13y agoThat's sort of like saying the universe is a table because its constituent parts, laws, etc make tables possible. I guess it's interesting, not very interesting, though.
- evanb 13y agoThere's somehow something deeper about computerness than there is about tableness.
- DerpDerpDerp 13y agoAnything with a subpart which computes is a computer; not everything with subparts that are tables is a table.
- cscheid 13y agoOr, like Scott Aaronson put it in his blog, "of course it's a computer. But the interesting question is: what kind of computer is it?"