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Yes, the modified Bitcoin transaction performs exactly the same transfer between the same addresses. There is no double-spend as far as the Bitcoin system is co

by kens 13y ago

Yes, the modified Bitcoin transaction performs exactly the same transfer between the same addresses. There is no double-spend as far as the Bitcoin system is concerned since only one of the transactions will get confirmed by miners. Linguistic arguments are kind of pointless, but it's still an attack even if they are just trying to disrupt the system and not steal anything. e.g. a denial-of-service attack. Various definitions of "attack" are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_(computing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_(computing)

jimktrains2 13y ago
But if you handle tx properly it doesn't disrupt your system.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  The seriousness of this attack is that several major bitcoin services lost a lot of money because of it. It's an attack.
  - erikpukinskis 13y ago
    It's an attack, it's just not an attack on Bitcoin.
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      This is mincing words. It's an attack on bitcoin. Many major exchanges were shuttered while they dealt with it, for example. It's certainly not an attack on not-bitcoin, so therefore it's an attack on bitcoin.
      - jimktrains2 13y ago
        There's an attack on credit cards because Target had a breach! See, I can say ridiculous things too. Someone using bitcoins didn't follow protocol and as such as scammed out of money. This isn't a bitcoins-protocol issue, this is a people issue. Note that the other exchanges are up now, very quickly after everyone stopped to check themselves.
        smackfu 13y ago
        The Target hack certainly disrupted the credit card system, by causing a lot of reissued cards.
        jimktrains2 13y ago
        That doesn't really disrupt the system though. It's not causing issues for anyone who hasn't had their card canceled and reïssued.
      - onnoonno 13y ago
        Bitcoin the protocol? Bitcoin the idea? Bitcoin the network? Bitcoin the whole ecosystem? I would argue it was an attack on Bitcoin the ecosystem, due to an _oddity_ of Bitcoin the protocol. Bitcoin the idea is still fully alive. The attack worked from within Bitcoin, the network.
- gus_massa 13y ago
  This causes another problem. Even if you have a lot of coins from a former transaction, when you spent a little the remainder coins (change) have to be blocked for 1 hour (6 blocks) until the transaction is "confirmed". The standard client just assumes that the transaction is legit and you can use the remaining coins immediately. But to use these coins the program has to know the ID of the transaction. But due to the malleability, it's possible that the ID that is generated in your client is not the same ID that is finally added to the blockchain. If you use the original ID and it is changued, then the next transactions will be invalid. So you must wait to see the final ID and use it to create the next transactions.

by kens 13y ago

jimktrains2 13y ago

But if you handle tx properly it doesn't disrupt your system.

sillysaurus2 13y ago
The seriousness of this attack is that several major bitcoin services lost a lot of money because of it. It's an attack.
- erikpukinskis 13y ago
  It's an attack, it's just not an attack on Bitcoin.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    This is mincing words. It's an attack on bitcoin. Many major exchanges were shuttered while they dealt with it, for example. It's certainly not an attack on not-bitcoin, so therefore it's an attack on bitcoin.
    - jimktrains2 13y ago
      There's an attack on credit cards because Target had a breach! See, I can say ridiculous things too. Someone using bitcoins didn't follow protocol and as such as scammed out of money. This isn't a bitcoins-protocol issue, this is a people issue. Note that the other exchanges are up now, very quickly after everyone stopped to check themselves.
      - smackfu 13y ago
        The Target hack certainly disrupted the credit card system, by causing a lot of reissued cards.
        jimktrains2 13y ago
        That doesn't really disrupt the system though. It's not causing issues for anyone who hasn't had their card canceled and reïssued.
    - onnoonno 13y ago
      Bitcoin the protocol? Bitcoin the idea? Bitcoin the network? Bitcoin the whole ecosystem? I would argue it was an attack on Bitcoin the ecosystem, due to an _oddity_ of Bitcoin the protocol. Bitcoin the idea is still fully alive. The attack worked from within Bitcoin, the network.
gus_massa 13y ago
This causes another problem. Even if you have a lot of coins from a former transaction, when you spent a little the remainder coins (change) have to be blocked for 1 hour (6 blocks) until the transaction is "confirmed". The standard client just assumes that the transaction is legit and you can use the remaining coins immediately. But to use these coins the program has to know the ID of the transaction. But due to the malleability, it's possible that the ID that is generated in your client is not the same ID that is finally added to the blockchain. If you use the original ID and it is changued, then the next transactions will be invalid. So you must wait to see the final ID and use it to create the next transactions.