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Because the UK had Thatcher? /s Seriously I think there are reasons on all sides: The German government started early with the social welfare system in 1883,

by pgeorgi 13y ago

Because the UK had Thatcher? /s Seriously I think there are reasons on all sides: The German government started early with the social welfare system in 1883, which set the tone. (even if it was only designed to keep the commies at bay, it still has a stabilizing effect on Germany today) This made the employers not go as bat shit crazy as they did in the UK and the US - overworking people straight into hospital means that you're paying their wage for not working. The UK built its industrialization on a constant stream of new workers. Which again let the unions run cooler compared to their UK/US counterparts since the situation wasn't _all_ that bad. The second and third step then formed a feedback loop (with some effects on Government, too), which was cooperative in Germany, and adversarial for the Anglo-Saxons. It looks to me as if at some point, both unions and employers in the US and the UK could claim with good reason that they're only defending themselves against the other party.

masklinn 13y ago
And lest people believe this is an anglo-saxon problem, french labor relations are very similar to UK/US's, although there has been less systematic dismantling of unions as the country is generally speaking more to the left of the political spectrum.
gaius 13y ago
The union problems in the UK predate Thatcher - Red Robbo had already destroyed the car industry for example.
- pgeorgi 13y ago
  Of course - most thing I wrote about happened before Thatcher, too (German social welfare in 1883: That the UK went down a different path back then isn't Thatcher's responsibility unless we're talking time machines). But first, according to some circles, when it's about social policy in the UK, Thatcher is always to blame. I just couldn't resist :-) Second, I suppose Thatcher would have implemented a different policy given a different history in that area. The union/employer feedback loop influenced policy (and still does), and that includes Thatcher's for sure. Which makes that snarky first sentence a reversal of cause and effect.

by pgeorgi 13y ago

masklinn 13y ago

And lest people believe this is an anglo-saxon problem, french labor relations are very similar to UK/US's, although there has been less systematic dismantling of unions as the country is generally speaking more to the left of the political spectrum.

gaius 13y ago

The union problems in the UK predate Thatcher - Red Robbo had already destroyed the car industry for example.

pgeorgi 13y ago
Of course - most thing I wrote about happened before Thatcher, too (German social welfare in 1883: That the UK went down a different path back then isn't Thatcher's responsibility unless we're talking time machines). But first, according to some circles, when it's about social policy in the UK, Thatcher is always to blame. I just couldn't resist :-) Second, I suppose Thatcher would have implemented a different policy given a different history in that area. The union/employer feedback loop influenced policy (and still does), and that includes Thatcher's for sure. Which makes that snarky first sentence a reversal of cause and effect.