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Why I Dropped Out Of YC
- controversial 13y agoSo basically: 1. Moleskines are awesome. 2. Creativity is important if you want to be happy. 3. Work is no fun if it's hard and your partners suck. 4. This article has almost nothing to do with YC.
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- sillysaurus2 13y agoBut if you asked me for the one reason why it didn’t work out, the truth is that it just wasn’t fun anymore Is YC fun? Not the dinners. The work you're there to do. It seems like doing a successful startup is closer to this than to fun: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7222850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7222850 Maybe in the wake of a failed startup I deluded myself into thinking great teams are predicated on great friendships, a truism that no longer holds absolute truth. Perhaps there's a misunderstanding of what a friendship is in a business context. The cofounders have to have been friends for quite awhile, otherwise the stress will tear them apart. But they probably don't have to be dear friends, or the kind of friend you hug. It's just business. to those like me who held the institution on a pedestal This seems the central issue. YC is ultimately about business. It's awesome, it's changed the world and my life, but having expectations that it's going to be fun and that you're there with dear friends seems off the mark. But I've never done YC, so this is just speculation on my part.
- sheetjs 13y ago> it's changed the world and my life ... but I've never done YC, so this is just speculation on my part. If you haven't done YC, how has it changed your life?
- sillysaurus2 13y agoAirbnb provides a lot of help for people without a lot of money. I would've been in a bad position if not for Airbnb. Dropbox has made my life a lot less stressful. HN gives us all so many opportunities. For example, the monthly "who is hiring?" threads. If anyone is suddenly stricken with a run of bad luck, then they can make a post about it and the community will come together to at least offer them work. People here like talent, and can find ways to use it. Most other places aren't like that. And imagine a world with only Reddit. Also, imagine a world with no HN and no Reddit. YC has made seed funding more accessible, and given founders more power. The VC's had the upper hand before YC. Now the VCs seem to be closer to servants than masters. If I decide to do a startup, that will impact me. Probably some other things I haven't thought of off hand.
- 001sky 13y agoIs YC fun? Nothing important in life is easy. That being said, this is also figure of speech. I don't think it's overly enlightening to be literal in reading this. Things don't become fun when they are or become chores; like dirty laundry. {etc}. But who knows.
- Void_ 13y agoI just came to say I love this style of writing. Easy to read and funny. Good job.
- saeranv 13y agoAgreed. I've started following his blog for this reason. An excellent voice.
- ryanatkn 13y agoI'm curious how the OP found his startup partner(s) and what the irreconcilable differences were.
- drjacobs 13y agoSeriously. The title is 'why' and there is no explicit explanation.
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- sizzle 13y agoreddit is leaking again
- winstonian 13y agoI'm curious why the op didn't address why he's such a pussy.
- birken 13y agoLook, startups suck. Failed startups suck. Successful startups suck. Silicon Valley sucks. But so does working regular jobs, and so do a lot of things. The problem here is probably that you had the wrong expectations, and then when reality hit, it hit really hard. If you want to play the game, you better be mentally prepared for dealing with a lot of shit. Egos are going to clash. Friendships are going to be strained. Stress is going to occur. To use one of my favorite quotes my dad always said to me, "that is life in the big city". Startups are not romantic -- they are a slog. But... if you are building something you want to build, it can be worth it. Just don't expect it to be easy.
- useraccount 13y agoThis is the most reasonable thing anyone has ever said about Silicon Valley.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoSurely, that can't be true
- kenrikm 13y agoI agree, there are some great highs, the lows really suck. In the end you have to enjoy doing really hard things and things you don't enjoy or this place won't be right for you.
- jusben1369 13y agoActually, in the end you have to make sure you don't let yourself get too high on the high or too low on the lows. Those are the ones that make it.
- lzecon 13y agoExcellent point - I think working at a regular job is important to appreciate what you might be getting out of a startup and what kind of expectations you should be having going in.
- YuriNiyazov 13y agoI dropped out of YC in '08. It's really OK, I am not out on the street with glazed-over eyes wondering what could've been.
- astrofinch 13y agoYC wasn't such a huge deal in '08 though, were they?
- YuriNiyazov 13y agoI guess I don't know what you mean. They were certainly out of the "we don't know if this experiment is going to work or not" stage, and it was clear that the experiment was working. The number of startups that were being funded was less, but the number of startups in general was less too.
- vasilipupkin 13y agoEvidence?
- YuriNiyazov 13y agoEvidence that I dropped out? Or evidence that I am not on a screen corner?
- vasilipupkin 13y agowell, you say that it's no biggie to drop out of YC. It would be interesting to find out how that worked out for you
- rdl 13y agoThat seems like a really odd point to challenge, especially because he set the bar as "not out on the street with glazed-over eyes wondering what could've been." I mean, I kind of regret passing on a Google job in ~2001 to continue with an ultimately-doomed startup. I also regret not spending $10k on AAPL stock back then. I'm still quite happy with my life to date. If you could get into YC in 2008, you could almost certainly get one of any number of great jobs in the Bay Area, and could easily found a startup again (even with YC; depending on how exactly you left, it might be a positive).
- wslh 13y agoIt seems like he was into YC to write about how he dropped. He could enjoy the ride just for fun.
- yanivt 13y agoSorry to say this but it sounds like you're not a right fit for startups. Startups aren't for everyone. If you want to be a founder it is absolutely a gut wrenching challenge. You have to put yourself out there and then be torn apart a million different ways. You have to adapt and change, listen to others. Be relentless. Work is a grind, you don't get to work on what's fun. You have to work on what's right. And if you can't get a very deep sense of fulfillment with all that sacrifice, it doesn't mean you're a bad person. It just means you should get a normal job, or be employee 100 at a company, just don't be a founder.
- saganus 13y agoI'm curious about what you think is a way to actually get to work on what's fun. I know fun is a personal definition, but as I'm starting to build a product myself and I do find it fun and I'm doing it because I like it being fun, I hear this warnings and it kind of makes me think. Of course I'm afraid I will fail, but I also don't think working at an office is fun, unless you get to work on a cool project and there's no politics (yeah right..) or something like that. But then if building a product yourself, on your own terms, with your own hands, etc, is not fun, then what is? And I don'mean to be rhetorical or sarcastic. I'm asking seriously. With a lot of comments along the same lines as how hard it is because in the end it's business, what does it mean to build a product for fun, but where the business part is either not the most important part, or even present at all? Would that be like building a product and giving it away, so it's actually only for fun?
- yanivt 13y agoI would think the most fun thing to do would be to join a startup that's doing something that gets you excited, that already has an awesome team, that's already validated the product and the market. At that point it's still a lot of work but at least you know what you're getting into, there's less banging your head against the wall, and you're just helping to make the rocket ship go.
- ww520 13y agoI read that he's ok with doing all those you mentioned but had problem with adequate compensation with enough ownership in the startup. It's one thing to drink the Koolaid to toil away on someone else's idea and product direction with little or no pay nor sufficient equity. It's another thing to have the wisdom to walk away and pursue your own thing, even if that comes with all the problems of a startup.
- par 13y agoI'm not sure this says why you dropped out. Is your primary reason because it wasn't 'fun'? I'm not sure startups are supposed to be 'fun'. They are incredibly hard ventures to solve problems where others have failed.
- gfodor 13y agoIf you are literally having zero fun doing something for a sustained period of time you should probably stop doing that. Startups are hard work but there should be small victories along the way that should be fun. There should be fun in the experience of creating something. There should be fun in sharing what you've built with people. If you're not getting any of that and the environment is completely toxic something is probably wrong.
- unclebucknasty 13y agoI would replace "fun" with "rewarding" in your comment.
- rdl 13y agoI'm still confused what happened: did you have a cofounder dispute? Aaron is probably the most chill partner at YC, so you got good advice I'm sure.
- redschell 13y agoI read it twice, but I still didn't catch a motive beyond "it wasn't fun." I'm thinking he couldn't stomach the process of building a company: the day in, day out of keeping a fledgling venture alive. On the bright side, he may have saved his former company's life by parting ways with it when he did. Early stage ventures past the incubator/accelerator stage don't seem to weather cofounder disputes without taking significant damage.
- einhverfr 13y agoThe motive that came through to me was a sense of a loss of voice, i.e. he didn't feel like he had an equal say now that they had accepted money from investors. I.e. unrealistic expectations.
- rdl 13y agoI don't really understand that. Investors gave you money because they believed in the vision you conveyed (or whatever); aside from some very minimal minority-shareholder protections, and protecting your reputation, investors in early stage companies have very little power over you. The strongest pressure is probably from cofounders, or from employees/customers (once you have those; you can also fire either), or from yourself.
- einhverfr 13y ago> Investors gave you money because they believed in the vision you conveyed (or whatever); But it isn't just that. They are locked into an exit strategy and they have to protect that interest. This is even true of the investors with the most honesty and integrity. In other words, one would hope that an investor would not micromanage, but the investor is ultimately in it to make money and has a few small acceptable options to do that, so they are going to protect that interest. Money == power.
- theklub 13y agoWas that a commercial for moleskin?
- zaidf 13y agoDid you leave the startup that got into YC or did the whole start up(your cofounder(s)) also leave YC? Your writing hints at the former in which case it sounds like you left a start up that got into YC, not as much YC.
- jusben1369 13y agoHe left his startup which continued on in YC without him.
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- throwaway7808 13y agoThe thing about YC, is that it is the 'Steve Jobs way', the way of brilliant showmanship. But also the way of blatant lies and distortions fields. It is not the 'Wozniak Way'. (I'm also a YC dropout.)
- muglug 13y agoThe "Wozniak Way" was to do something very smart and ahead of its time, and let someone else do the marketing that was crucial to its success. The "Wozniak Way" may power some great open source projects, but successful great startups.
- einhverfr 13y agoIf I have learned one thing from reading HN here it is: If you want ownership (and by that I mean an equal say), you want to do a lifestyle business, not a startup. Once you start accepting other people's money, you get trapped into their expectations of an exit strategy. That exit strategy ends in one of three ways: 1. Your startup is sold and either you have a regular job or you no longer have any say. Either way you hopefully have some money. 2. Your startup goes public, makes you very wealthy, and now you are beholden to the SEC, tax lawyers, accounting lawyers, etc. 3. Your startup fails and ends. That's it. You may have a great idea, with scalable revenue, etc. But if you want control you have to fund it yourself. That's one reason why I doubt Efficito will ever take investment money (my co-founder and I are on the same page there) from outside parties. Where startups are better is where you want help to achieve greater rewards and don't mind being beholden to investors. That's the decision that has to be made before even looking at incubators.
- mitochondrion 13y agoNot to nitpick, but I don't think that you really mean to say "lifestyle business". When I think of a lifestyle business, I think of a smallish, relatively passive revenue generator. I think that there might be roughly three types of companies: those financially backed through equity, small passive-ish businesses that allow the owner to go off and live their "lifestyle", and boot-strapped (equity intact) active corporations. Personally, I want to retain all equity/control and would choose to dominate the market rather than milk the profit margin. Anyway, maybe I've missed the mark. I'd love to further flesh this out.
- einhverfr 13y agoBy lifestyle business, I mean one which is a lifestyle, rather one that is tied to the exit strategies of investors. This ranges from a small retail outlet to a growing software firm that is bootstrapped. The difference is that you are interested in long-term earnings on your revenue, not in making it big by selling shares (either via the stock market or by selling the business). The real difference, I think, is that a lifestyle business is not for sale. And that's a deal breaker if by an investor you want to make money by selling your interest.
- apunic 13y ago> life’s too short to wear hot pants. Yes and now get back into your comfort zone. Sorry, to be harsh but I just couldn't figure out why you left whom--YC, your startup, your cofounders? And what's all about this Moleskine? Happy about any clue or tl;dr
- johnjlocke 13y agoPerhaps this article was brilliant content marketing for Moleskine notebooks. That seemed to be the hero of the article, not the author.
- grey-area 13y agoIt's easy to be snarky, and this story was a little solipsistic and naive, but I think the notebook represents creativity and personal freedom to explore ideas for the author, that's why it is the star. YC felt like it was closing down options, and restricting his ability to think and act independently (hence the lack of ideas in the notebook), leaving was liberating (hence the new notebook, representing a new world of possibility). As a literary device it's not bad, even if you don't agree with the premise or his conclusions. That's what I got from it anyway.
- rmrfrmrf 13y agoI found the metaphor to be contrived and pretentious. We all understand the symbolism of a blank sheet of paper -- there's no need to elaborate for an entire paragraph about it.
- jseliger 13y agoI left this (very small point) on Jonathan's blog but think it worth noting here too: Taking the new Moleskine from the shelf and removing it from its plastic wrap, I turned to the first blank page and picked up my pen. Good luck on the next steps. One small suggestion, however: consider a Rhodia Webnotebook next time (I wrote about it here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/product-review-rhodia-webbie-webnotebook http://jseliger.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/product-review-rhod...). It's more durable than Moleskines and the paper is consistently better. I use a pocket-size notebook but there are A4 versions too.
- qq66 13y agoIrrelevant to the article, every business dreams of the brand loyalty that Moleskine enjoys. Look how often the article uses the brand name for a largely commodity product.
- wisty 13y agoThe author is a very good writer, but they don't actually say why they dropped out of YC. At best, they say "I'm glad I dropped out, because it wasn't much fun". (Yeah, they say that's the reason, but I believe that's a post-rationalisation). Apparently, the company was stalling, and there were lots of disputes. It's a startup. I guess the author walked earlier than usual - that's either smart or dumb .... it's hard to know which without knowing more. But there's not enough meat in the article to have a sane discussion on, other than making wild allegations about the author or YC or starups or Moleskin journals.
- gojomo 13y agoWhile it's mixed in amongst a bunch of other detail, several related reasons are given: "…an irreconcilable working relationship rooted in fundamental differences in personalities and misaligned expectations of roles and responsibilities…" "…the startup would never be something I could call my own, not just in stake but in equal say… …in this case the lack [of a sense of ownership] tore [the startup] apart…" "…it just wasn’t fun anymore…" More specifics about the irreconcilable clashes over roles and sense of ownership would have been great, but there's enough to see that there were unpleasant disagreements between friends that got worse rather than better over time, and it made more sense for the author to leave than others. Happens all the time among people with strong opinions and unclear areas-of-mutual-deference...
- msutherl 13y agoI just want to say you're not alone in being jaded and disillusioned about "Silicon Valley at large". There are a lot of things about it that are fucked up and you should absolutely blaze your own trail or look elsewhere if it doesn't sit right with you. There are a lot of people in tech who deliberately steer clear and they're not hanging out on HN either. For some reason I'm still stuck on this site though.
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- courtf 13y agoI feel a certain amount of empathy for the author, mostly due to having been adrift through some lengthy segments of my own life. I will only say that spending much time navel-gazing is a largely futile exercise, particularly when the fruits of that labor are so decidely ambiguous and unfocused. Put some distance, in the metaphysical sense, between yourself and these events.
- aelaguiz 13y agoI sometimes wonder if people like this wake up one day and realize they tossed one of the most important opportunities of their lives because they are stubborn. Probably not.
- zxcvvcxz 13y agoI wish the author would have talked specifically about the clash with his partner(s), that would have been actually insightful/interesting. But maybe privacy concerns prevent that which is understandable. I've actually been in a similar position with an incubator startup-thing where my cofounders couldn't carry on working on what we (perhaps mostly I) initially set out to do. Working on anything else certainly feels like hot pants to me. But alas, I'm taking the other route and seeing what happens when I swallow my pride and decide to try learning about something that I think is otherwise bullshit. Just this one time though... can't let the rest of the world tell you to work on shit you don't want to work on forever ;) Anyone else relate to this for an incubator-type thing? How did staying a path you didn't initially like vs. quitting work out for y'all?