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In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around th
by waps 13y ago
In other news : 3 in 4 hacker news readers don't know the earth doesn't orbit the sun at all. That is an impression created by the fact that the space around the sun moves as a result of gravity. This results in that the location of the earth doesn't change, but as the sun is sucking in space and constantly pushing out it's matter the distance doesn't change. This results in the fact that a straight line path around the sun at the relative speed difference that the earth the sun have, and then transpose said trajectory into an approximate euclidean space with the sun as it's point of origin results in a (roughly) ellipsoid trajectory.
But make no mistake : the earth is standing still, it's not moving. There is no actual movement of either the earth, or the sun, or for that matter, any other planet or body, as a result of gravity. The earth is not circling the sun, it is moving in a straight line through what just happens to be non-euclidean space. Hell there is no gravity acting on the earth, nor for that matter on you (on the contrary : you are being accelerated upward, not downward at roughly the rate at which the earth sucks up space).
(Here movement is defined as the only viable relativistic definition of movement : a movement that can be observed to be different from standing still, meaning travelling at a fixed speed in a straight line is not moving at all)
If the earth ever starts orbiting the sun, life on earth will become impossible in a matter of minutes, as the resulting acceleration would affect magma flow and would very quickly change the entire surface of the earth into a liquid state. In that case the earth's surface would quickly change to the average temperature of the earth itself : ~6000 degrees celcius.
People say that the earth is orbiting the sun, because people are thinking within an euclidean reference frame. If you ignore the fact that we live in a relativistic universe and just act as if it's euclidean, it looks like the earth is orbiting. But in (what we think) is the real structure of the universe, that's not the case at all.
Saying that the earth orbits the sun, or God forbid, that it circles the sun, are flat-out wrong statements. The last time scientists actually believed that was about 1931. The "science" that is being popularized is either old, or just flat-out wrong. This goes for other popular versions of scientific theories as well. If evolution is "mutate + natural selection + goto 1", then humans don't evolve at all, and neither does any larger lifeform (and it's still an open question if bacteria evolve or not). Hell, did you know the earth is the exact center of the universe ? No joke. Read a bit about Hubble's discovery. The big bang is not actually the beginning of time, google inflation theory (and even inflation theory doesn't model the beginning of time). Did you know that we lost ~98% (that's a lower bound) of all mass in the universe ? We have zero clue where the rest of the universe is.
- chc 13y agoWhat is the meaningful difference between orbiting and moving in a straight line that creates an ellipsoid in Euclidean space?
- lutusp 13y agoWell, apart from the fact that the OP is an undisciplined mixture of almost-right physics and fantasy, spacetime isn't Euclidean, it's curved by masses. But, contrary to the OP, if you took a position above the sun's north pole, you would certainly see the planets orbiting the sun, just as in pre-relativistic physics. The reason? A different spacetime curvature at that location. It's true that, in modern physical theory, there's no force called gravity. It's also true that the earth is moving in an inertial "straight" path through curved spacetime. But it is absolutely false to say that the earth isn't orbiting the sun.
- baddox 13y agoI don't think that's an appropriate analysis, because "orbit" has a specific definition in science that abstracts away the technicalities like Euclidean space vs. gravity as "bent space." The Earth absolutely does orbit the Sun.
- wvenable 13y ago> the earth is standing still, it's not moving... it is moving in a straight line Wait, is the earth moving or not? I also can't figure out what definition of orbit you are using. Your comment feels far too clever for it's own good.
- lutusp 13y agoThe OP is trying to argue that there's a preferred frame of reference in a physical theory (relativity) that explicitly disallows preferred frames of reference. If you took a position roughly 200 million miles (about 320 million kilometers) above the sun's north pole, and watched from there, you would certainly see the earth orbit the sun. The reason? Different curvature from that perspective. The OP could have simply said that, in relativity, there's no force called gravity, instead planets orbit their parent bodies because of curved four-dimensional spacetime. He then could have quoted physicist John Wheeler, who famously said, "Matter tells space how to curve, and space tells matter how to move." After the OP correctly said that the earth is moving through curved spacetime in a straight line, IMHO he should have turned in his golf clubs. > Your comment feels far too clever for it's own good. You got that exactly right. The OP's intention is to confuse, not enlighten.