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Can you explain more? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Belsham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Belsham > [Belshan] used the term libertarian in a dis

Can you explain more? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Belsham http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Belsham > [Belshan] used the term libertarian in a discussion of free will and in opposition to "necessitarian" (or determinist) views The use of the word "libertarian" in free will debates is separate from political libertarianism. But it's worse than that: http://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/philosophers/belsham/ http://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/philosophers... > This essay is cited as the first to use the term "Libertarian." For Belsham it was a term of abuse. Liberty was nearly synonymous with libertine, a description of a person with no responsibility. > Belsham dismisses the ideas of the Libertarians, citing the foreknowledge of God, as did Hobbes and the religious leaders Luther and Calvin before him. > Belsham is a Necessarian, as he describes his fellow determinists. So, what are you talking about?

kaonashi 13y ago
He was the first guy to ever use the term libertarian; so from that point until the late 60's, libertarianism was something Rand was ostensibly against. Most libertarians today embrace the Randian critique of the libertarianism of her day. In other words, the libertarianism of today is by and large anarcho-capitalism rebranded.
- xenophanes 13y ago
  > He was the first guy to ever use the term libertarian The word has multiple meanings. He used a different one. How is that relevant? It's like you cited the first use of the word "mouse" (animal) when we were talking about computer mice. And your comments don't make sense. Rand strongly criticized anarcho-capitalism, you say libertarians today are largely anarcho-capitalists, and yet you seem to be disagreeing with the Objectivism/libertarianism divide (though it's hard to tell what your position is).
  - kaonashi 13y ago
    It was a historical reference meant to mark the beginnings of the word in the english lexicon, not as any particular fully-formed ideological system. Like saying "from Stonehenge to the Big Ben" when speaking of English architecture. In the Venn-diagram of libertarians, Ayn Rand fans, and Murray Rothbard adherents, the area of the cross-section is non-zero.

kaonashi 13y ago

He was the first guy to ever use the term libertarian; so from that point until the late 60's, libertarianism was something Rand was ostensibly against. Most libertarians today embrace the Randian critique of the libertarianism of her day. In other words, the libertarianism of today is by and large anarcho-capitalism rebranded.

xenophanes 13y ago
> He was the first guy to ever use the term libertarian The word has multiple meanings. He used a different one. How is that relevant? It's like you cited the first use of the word "mouse" (animal) when we were talking about computer mice. And your comments don't make sense. Rand strongly criticized anarcho-capitalism, you say libertarians today are largely anarcho-capitalists, and yet you seem to be disagreeing with the Objectivism/libertarianism divide (though it's hard to tell what your position is).
- kaonashi 13y ago
  It was a historical reference meant to mark the beginnings of the word in the english lexicon, not as any particular fully-formed ideological system. Like saying "from Stonehenge to the Big Ben" when speaking of English architecture. In the Venn-diagram of libertarians, Ayn Rand fans, and Murray Rothbard adherents, the area of the cross-section is non-zero.