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It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put th

by zedshaw 13y ago

It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... But a guy who has actually lost people's money, put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts, and potentially is lying about the security flaw to steal all this money while spouting hypocritical contradictory statements...is a fucking hero. Bravo! You win the ultimate hypocrite award of the century!

redthrowaway 13y ago
How did "stop being a jackass" turn into "I support the guy who stole the money"? Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it. But fuck it, I told you pretty much the exact same thing[1] almost 3 years ago, and you haven't changed since then. It's not your message that turns people off, it's your delivery. I still suspect it's a calculated ploy for pageviews and name recognition. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2605957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2605957
- milkshakes 13y ago
  > Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it. For what it's worth, this is Responding to Tone, or DH2[#] #: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
  - redthrowaway 13y ago
    Only if I were disagreeing with some substantive point he made, which I'm not (I'm not agreeing, either). The substantive issue of my comment was his tone. I'm not disagreeing with him or trying to convince others that he's wrong; I'm just calling him out for being a jackass.
    - milkshakes 13y ago
      > Only if I were disagreeing with some substantive point he made, which I'm not (I'm not agreeing, either). The substantive issue of my comment was his tone. I'm not disagreeing with him or trying to convince others that he's wrong FTA: So if the worst thing you can say about something is to criticize its tone, you're not saying much. Is the author flippant, but correct? Better that than grave and wrong. And if the author is incorrect somewhere, say where. > I'm just calling him out for being a jackass. This is actually DH0, Name Calling.
      - Floegipoky 13y ago
        You can't (reasonably) apply the hierarchy of disagreement to someone who is not actually disagreeing. He's not saying this to contribute to the debate, he's trying to encourage the community to express itself in an appropriate manner. Zed has made it pretty clear that he has no interest in factual debate. Multiple people have tried to point out the misunderstandings expressed in his posts and have been met with accusations of hypocrisy and/or avoidance of the actual points raised. He's firmly in the range of DH0-3. I'll admit I'm pretty new here, but this seems to me like behavior that the community should try to discourage.
      - redthrowaway 13y ago
        "You're being a jackass" != "You're a jackass" I'm criticizing the behaviour, not the person. If you can't call out poor behaviour, you can't expect civil communication.
        milkshakes 13y ago
        > I'm criticizing the behaviour, not the person. What you're doing is kidding yourself. You already know that zed shaw, being zed shaw, could care less about what the fun police has to say about the way he expresses himself. > If you can't call out poor behaviour, you can't expect civil communication. This news forum provides a mechanism that allows users to collectively rank posts by voting on them. Zed's comment on this article happens to be the top ranked one. Respectfully, I would submit that the majority of people who have seen it value the information content of his post more than they are offended by the way that he delivered it. Could he have expressed himself in a more PG13 fashion? Sure he could have. Could he have made his point more politely? I don't think anyone would argue against that. But that's not Zed. Frankly, I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to appoint yourself the civility police and harass people for the way they say things without actually engaging with what they are trying to say. Luckily for us, Zed doesn't actually care what you think. But I don't believe that it is either constructive or in the spirit of this venue to encourage an environment that attacks people for how they say things, rather than what they say. I think that the losses from such an overly sensitive environment, given the diverse range of cultures and personalities this board attracts, would far outweigh the gains.
jacobtracey 13y ago
It's the condescending way you write that makes you seem like an asshole... i.e saying "Hahahahah" all the time - I don't particularly disagree with your points but the insulting tone is unnecessary, don't you think?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- julie1 13y ago
  At one point, I wish I could shout like him. There are stuffs that are obvious: it is simple ideas. You speak about it nicely and you get scorned. Then, you doubt, you persist and you discover that you were right: it is now obvious, and still they laugh at you. So maybe, nervously, you laugh even louder.
- zedshaw 13y ago
  First off, only my mother gets to tell me to "watch my tone". Random jackoffs online can go fuck themselves if they think they've earned my respect by default, especially if those same jackoffs use political rhetoric to harm and steal from others. My tone is simply a reaction to the tone of arrogance and superiority most objectivists and commenters take. If you don't want to be ridiculed, then don't write like a arrogant douchebag with zero self-awareness. Those kinds of people are due a large dose of insulting and "tone".
  - amagumori 13y ago
    in the immortal words of The Dude - you're not wrong, zed, you're just an asshole. escalating discussions into flamewars by being unnecessarily inflammatory hurts the quality of the discussion for everyone.
  - jacobtracey 13y ago
    redthrowaway's comment: > You can make the same argument without being an ass about it. Your reply: > It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... You completely missed their point, how you can't see that is beyond me.
ossreality 13y ago
> put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts Oh Zed, even if anything else you were saying is right this just makes you sound like an idiot or an aggrandizing asshole. Then again, I remember my audience.
300bps 13y ago
There's no need for the tone you're taking.
spikels 13y ago
But wait Zed you certainly come out "looking like an asshole" quite often. You admit it yourself[1]. It seems to have something to do with your strident polarizing style. Just saying... BTW - Love your L?THW books. Thanks [1] http://zedshaw.com/essays/master_and_expert.html http://zedshaw.com/essays/master_and_expert.html

by zedshaw 13y ago

redthrowaway 13y ago

How did "stop being a jackass" turn into "I support the guy who stole the money"? Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it. But fuck it, I told you pretty much the exact same thing[1] almost 3 years ago, and you haven't changed since then. It's not your message that turns people off, it's your delivery. I still suspect it's a calculated ploy for pageviews and name recognition. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2605957 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2605957

milkshakes 13y ago
> Zed, I want to make myself clear, here: I have absolutely nothing to say whatsoever about whatever substantive claims you might be making. I'm just telling you to stop being a asshole about it. For what it's worth, this is Responding to Tone, or DH2[#] #: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
- redthrowaway 13y ago
  Only if I were disagreeing with some substantive point he made, which I'm not (I'm not agreeing, either). The substantive issue of my comment was his tone. I'm not disagreeing with him or trying to convince others that he's wrong; I'm just calling him out for being a jackass.
  - milkshakes 13y ago
    > Only if I were disagreeing with some substantive point he made, which I'm not (I'm not agreeing, either). The substantive issue of my comment was his tone. I'm not disagreeing with him or trying to convince others that he's wrong FTA: So if the worst thing you can say about something is to criticize its tone, you're not saying much. Is the author flippant, but correct? Better that than grave and wrong. And if the author is incorrect somewhere, say where. > I'm just calling him out for being a jackass. This is actually DH0, Name Calling.
    - Floegipoky 13y ago
      You can't (reasonably) apply the hierarchy of disagreement to someone who is not actually disagreeing. He's not saying this to contribute to the debate, he's trying to encourage the community to express itself in an appropriate manner. Zed has made it pretty clear that he has no interest in factual debate. Multiple people have tried to point out the misunderstandings expressed in his posts and have been met with accusations of hypocrisy and/or avoidance of the actual points raised. He's firmly in the range of DH0-3. I'll admit I'm pretty new here, but this seems to me like behavior that the community should try to discourage.
    - redthrowaway 13y ago
      "You're being a jackass" != "You're a jackass" I'm criticizing the behaviour, not the person. If you can't call out poor behaviour, you can't expect civil communication.
      - milkshakes 13y ago
        > I'm criticizing the behaviour, not the person. What you're doing is kidding yourself. You already know that zed shaw, being zed shaw, could care less about what the fun police has to say about the way he expresses himself. > If you can't call out poor behaviour, you can't expect civil communication. This news forum provides a mechanism that allows users to collectively rank posts by voting on them. Zed's comment on this article happens to be the top ranked one. Respectfully, I would submit that the majority of people who have seen it value the information content of his post more than they are offended by the way that he delivered it. Could he have expressed himself in a more PG13 fashion? Sure he could have. Could he have made his point more politely? I don't think anyone would argue against that. But that's not Zed. Frankly, I think it's a bit presumptuous of you to appoint yourself the civility police and harass people for the way they say things without actually engaging with what they are trying to say. Luckily for us, Zed doesn't actually care what you think. But I don't believe that it is either constructive or in the spirit of this venue to encourage an environment that attacks people for how they say things, rather than what they say. I think that the losses from such an overly sensitive environment, given the diverse range of cultures and personalities this board attracts, would far outweigh the gains.

jacobtracey 13y ago

It's the condescending way you write that makes you seem like an asshole... i.e saying "Hahahahah" all the time - I don't particularly disagree with your points but the insulting tone is unnecessary, don't you think?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
julie1 13y ago
At one point, I wish I could shout like him. There are stuffs that are obvious: it is simple ideas. You speak about it nicely and you get scorned. Then, you doubt, you persist and you discover that you were right: it is now obvious, and still they laugh at you. So maybe, nervously, you laugh even louder.
zedshaw 13y ago
First off, only my mother gets to tell me to "watch my tone". Random jackoffs online can go fuck themselves if they think they've earned my respect by default, especially if those same jackoffs use political rhetoric to harm and steal from others. My tone is simply a reaction to the tone of arrogance and superiority most objectivists and commenters take. If you don't want to be ridiculed, then don't write like a arrogant douchebag with zero self-awareness. Those kinds of people are due a large dose of insulting and "tone".
- amagumori 13y ago
  in the immortal words of The Dude - you're not wrong, zed, you're just an asshole. escalating discussions into flamewars by being unnecessarily inflammatory hurts the quality of the discussion for everyone.
- jacobtracey 13y ago
  redthrowaway's comment: > You can make the same argument without being an ass about it. Your reply: > It's funny how me pointing out the stupidity and bullshit of a group of criminals makes me an asshole... You completely missed their point, how you can't see that is beyond me.

ossreality 13y ago

> put them at risk of reprisal from drug dealers, helped people (potentially young people) commit major crimes, enabled future addicts Oh Zed, even if anything else you were saying is right this just makes you sound like an idiot or an aggrandizing asshole. Then again, I remember my audience.

300bps 13y ago

There's no need for the tone you're taking.

spikels 13y ago

But wait Zed you certainly come out "looking like an asshole" quite often. You admit it yourself[1]. It seems to have something to do with your strident polarizing style. Just saying... BTW - Love your L?THW books. Thanks [1] http://zedshaw.com/essays/master_and_expert.html http://zedshaw.com/essays/master_and_expert.html