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And users can't do anything about that. Actual users want products that just work. You're twisting "users" to mean "programmers that have the time and interes

And users can't do anything about that. Actual users want products that just work. You're twisting "users" to mean "programmers that have the time and interest in spending it on hacking their gadgets." There is a huge difference here: the vast majority of people don't mess with their routers (heck - I'm a programmer, and I code at home and at work, and I don't mess with my router). So the people you're talking about are a very, very small group. I'm not saying that this is a group of zero size. All I mean is: compare the total number of people that are into their wrt54g routers with the total number of routers out there. Users aren't idiots; they just have other things they'd rather be doing than messing with their wireless routers. You imply that they're paying too much for their routers, given the features they have. Who are you to say what a feature (of a product you don't have to support) is worth to another person? If you think you can do better, no one is stopping you from making and distributing routers that you'd like, either for sale or for gratis.

drdaeman 13y ago
> You're twisting "users" to mean "programmers that have the time and interest in spending it on hacking their gadgets." Nope, I meant users. Who want products to work. I'm not willing to hack my phone myself, in fact I don't have resources to do that. But I'm willing to pay someone to do that. Yet, I can't, because the necessary extent of reverse engineering would cost me a fortune. So, I learned to live with what I have. > the vast majority of people don't mess with their routers Does that prove anything? See, I don't mess with my phone and my TV, too. Does that mean I'm really satisfied with those? Nope, I just tolerate them. Imagine there's a patch that automagically improves your network experience by configuring QoS features your router already has (but has no UI for them). Would you install it? If you'd have to crack your router open, solder a serial port, run a TFTP server and risk bricking the device - you probably wouldn't. If you'd have just download a file and click a button or two and have a new feature (not complete router reflash to a new firmware) - I guess you quite likely would consider so. > Who are you to say what a feature (of a product you don't have to support) is worth to another person? Uh. Someone, who heard some those other persons complaining? I must admit, this is a subjective opinion, I do not have proper statistics that can make things objective. However, you're right, routers were a bad example. Average user rarely has an opinion on those just because they don't really consciously interact with them. "Smart" TVs and phones are much more common source of complaints. And the point was not about pricing. It was about inability to control what you have.
ris 13y ago
> Actual users want products that just work. And there's the sound of someone slamming down the portcullis between "us" and "them". Programmers and non-programmers. Creators and consumers.

drdaeman 13y ago

> You're twisting "users" to mean "programmers that have the time and interest in spending it on hacking their gadgets." Nope, I meant users. Who want products to work. I'm not willing to hack my phone myself, in fact I don't have resources to do that. But I'm willing to pay someone to do that. Yet, I can't, because the necessary extent of reverse engineering would cost me a fortune. So, I learned to live with what I have. > the vast majority of people don't mess with their routers Does that prove anything? See, I don't mess with my phone and my TV, too. Does that mean I'm really satisfied with those? Nope, I just tolerate them. Imagine there's a patch that automagically improves your network experience by configuring QoS features your router already has (but has no UI for them). Would you install it? If you'd have to crack your router open, solder a serial port, run a TFTP server and risk bricking the device - you probably wouldn't. If you'd have just download a file and click a button or two and have a new feature (not complete router reflash to a new firmware) - I guess you quite likely would consider so. > Who are you to say what a feature (of a product you don't have to support) is worth to another person? Uh. Someone, who heard some those other persons complaining? I must admit, this is a subjective opinion, I do not have proper statistics that can make things objective. However, you're right, routers were a bad example. Average user rarely has an opinion on those just because they don't really consciously interact with them. "Smart" TVs and phones are much more common source of complaints. And the point was not about pricing. It was about inability to control what you have.

ris 13y ago

> Actual users want products that just work. And there's the sound of someone slamming down the portcullis between "us" and "them". Programmers and non-programmers. Creators and consumers.