5 ms·

Communication is hard. Any system that works well for everyone in the relationship is a good one. Married 26 years with four kids :)

MrZongle2 13y ago
Well, first and foremost: congrats on 26 years. And my hat's off to you for four. Until you have your second, you don't realize that the workload is not a linear progression! But in reference to the article in question: would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? I'm pretty confident it wouldn't work for my wife and I. If you're completely spent at the end of the day, do you really want to lose a bidding war with your spouse to do some extra work? Doesn't one party risk building resentment merely because they're the poorer in the relationship? And what does this look like to the kids after a while? I agree completely with your point that communication is hard. I just think that this "solution" is merely beautiful fondant covering a possibly shaky foundation; money should never be a long-term or routine motivator in a loving relationship.
- breadbox 13y ago
  > But in reference to the article in question: would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? Sheesh. We all have a few things in common, but beyond that different people really can be different. Especially when it comes to how to manage family relationships. In my experience, anyway. Be careful of generalizing from yourself to folks you've never met.
- bandushrew 13y ago
  It is clearly not a perfect system, and it does raise all the questions you have mentioned, so I am not going to defend it particularly vigorously, but here is a random array of thoughts... AFAICT what this system appears to allow for is an open and honest process of outright negotiation around how the household works. I cannot see a downside for that, and have seen (and practiced on many occasions) much more negative approaches - arguing, resentment, grudging, self-martrydom and so on. If you and your partner are both completely spent at the end of the day then you can negotiate the remaining work, neglect it, or have one person accept it. All of those are reasonable options at different times, what is important is not the individual decision, but the overall pattern and the process of communication and negotiation you use to get there. To the kids it probably looks like mum and dad are negotiating over who gets to put them to bed. Ive (sadly) had my kids listen through arguments around that at times, and many other things, and overall they appear to have survived and even done pretty well, although they are still young so who knows. I think it is fantastically easy for someone outside a relationship to look at it and go "that relationship is broken, there is no way it can work", and be completely wrong (or right). Relationships tend to be pretty unique things. Maybe theirs is in good shape, and maybe it is not, but in general I dont see a problem with any process that helps them negotiate openly and honestly about what they want. It is also fantastically easy to speculate on how badly kids will be damaged by behavior you personally dont agree with. If you scrape the surface of why they are together and what their motivations are, I doubt it is the money. The money merely provides a proxy for them to build discussions around. ....or maybe their relationship really is based on money, who knows....
  - dreeves 13y ago
    Great responses to some of the objections! I can add that we do indeed let the kids perceive it as bidding for putting them to bed ("Mommy wins!" etc). On the other hand, we're usually quite honest with them about our preferences, like "when you're uncooperative at bedtime like this it makes us not enjoy putting you kids to bed". You're quite right that it's better for the kids to see us bidding to not have to put them to bed than to hear us arguing about it. (You're also quite right that the primary value of involving money is simply to quantify preferences to determine what's socially efficient. Following through with the payments is needed to keep us honest in expressing our preferences, and also adds fairness by compensating the loser for not getting their way. But that part's more icing.)
    - LaughingWithAtU 13y ago
      What happens when they find out (while still young) that you lied and it is really bidding to see who DOESN'T have to put them to bed?
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  > would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? I don't know...people are really different from one another, especially when it comes to core beliefs and communications style.
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  i feel for you. all those people who aren't exactly like me drive me crazy too.

MrZongle2 13y ago

Well, first and foremost: congrats on 26 years. And my hat's off to you for four. Until you have your second, you don't realize that the workload is not a linear progression! But in reference to the article in question: would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? I'm pretty confident it wouldn't work for my wife and I. If you're completely spent at the end of the day, do you really want to lose a bidding war with your spouse to do some extra work? Doesn't one party risk building resentment merely because they're the poorer in the relationship? And what does this look like to the kids after a while? I agree completely with your point that communication is hard. I just think that this "solution" is merely beautiful fondant covering a possibly shaky foundation; money should never be a long-term or routine motivator in a loving relationship.

breadbox 13y ago
> But in reference to the article in question: would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? Sheesh. We all have a few things in common, but beyond that different people really can be different. Especially when it comes to how to manage family relationships. In my experience, anyway. Be careful of generalizing from yourself to folks you've never met.
bandushrew 13y ago
It is clearly not a perfect system, and it does raise all the questions you have mentioned, so I am not going to defend it particularly vigorously, but here is a random array of thoughts... AFAICT what this system appears to allow for is an open and honest process of outright negotiation around how the household works. I cannot see a downside for that, and have seen (and practiced on many occasions) much more negative approaches - arguing, resentment, grudging, self-martrydom and so on. If you and your partner are both completely spent at the end of the day then you can negotiate the remaining work, neglect it, or have one person accept it. All of those are reasonable options at different times, what is important is not the individual decision, but the overall pattern and the process of communication and negotiation you use to get there. To the kids it probably looks like mum and dad are negotiating over who gets to put them to bed. Ive (sadly) had my kids listen through arguments around that at times, and many other things, and overall they appear to have survived and even done pretty well, although they are still young so who knows. I think it is fantastically easy for someone outside a relationship to look at it and go "that relationship is broken, there is no way it can work", and be completely wrong (or right). Relationships tend to be pretty unique things. Maybe theirs is in good shape, and maybe it is not, but in general I dont see a problem with any process that helps them negotiate openly and honestly about what they want. It is also fantastically easy to speculate on how badly kids will be damaged by behavior you personally dont agree with. If you scrape the surface of why they are together and what their motivations are, I doubt it is the money. The money merely provides a proxy for them to build discussions around. ....or maybe their relationship really is based on money, who knows....
- dreeves 13y ago
  Great responses to some of the objections! I can add that we do indeed let the kids perceive it as bidding for putting them to bed ("Mommy wins!" etc). On the other hand, we're usually quite honest with them about our preferences, like "when you're uncooperative at bedtime like this it makes us not enjoy putting you kids to bed". You're quite right that it's better for the kids to see us bidding to not have to put them to bed than to hear us arguing about it. (You're also quite right that the primary value of involving money is simply to quantify preferences to determine what's socially efficient. Following through with the payments is needed to keep us honest in expressing our preferences, and also adds fairness by compensating the loser for not getting their way. But that part's more icing.)
  - LaughingWithAtU 13y ago
    What happens when they find out (while still young) that you lied and it is really bidding to see who DOESN'T have to put them to bed?
snowwrestler 13y ago
> would this system work for you? If not, isn't there a chance it really won't work for these people, for the same reason? I don't know...people are really different from one another, especially when it comes to core beliefs and communications style.
andrewcooke 13y ago
i feel for you. all those people who aren't exactly like me drive me crazy too.