4 ms·

Out of all the comments on this thread, this is the only one with an actionable solution to the problem.

justizin 13y ago
SFPD are going down this road, OPD (Oakland) and many others already do, but the officers often find an excuse for their camera to malfunction when they want, and in many cases they are instructed to turn the camera on themselves before interacting with anyone, and they simply don't. It turns out that telling the cops what to do isn't very effective.
- wwweston 13y ago
  You're probably right; there'd need to be incentives. Maybe tying pay and funding to available footage?
  - ewang1 13y ago
    Live video uplink... and they can call all the officers with "malfunctioning" cameras back to the station to get a replacement.
- mcherm 13y ago
  But the existence of the cameras can solve this problem (assuming that the footage is made available for subpoena). For instance, if this particular officer has a history of having their camera malfunction right before arrests and do so at rates far higher than other officers then this fact could be brought up in court.
  - justizin 13y ago
    The real world just doesn't work that way. Cops are not accountable. We need to take more responsibility for policing our own communities and spend less time demanding that more money is spent on police budgets. These SFPD were whining about how they can't afford to live in SF, but they make as much as I do SPECIFICALLY to address that problem. Police are "State Violence". They exist to encourage the rest of us to follow the rules for fear of SPECIFICALLY this sort of situation. They are never, in any precinct, going to be an acceptable institution. They will not find your stolen shit, they might arrest you if you witness a tragedy, and if you want to go tell your elected representatives they are a bunch of assholes, they will come out in paramilitary gear and spray fucking pepper spray or teargas in your face. They have one of the strongest unions in the country and their own bill of rights. Cameras are a good idea, but they're just not going to fix this. I would love to see people in the tech industry get involved in CopWatch, talk to people that have been doing this, esp in the bay area for decades. It is ASTOUNDINGLY difficult to get even a reprimand on file. Look at Johannes Mehserle and John Pike, extreme cases, but if their behavior is above reproach, how do you think that grabbing a random person and stomping you into the ground for noncompliance while you are in a state of shock is going to get them anything but a few laughs at the cop bar. I wish technology could fix the police, but it cannot.
    - mcherm 13y ago
      I simply cannot share in your level of pessimism. I believe that if the behavior of the bad actors were visible that it would change. I am not saying that things are not terrible: they may be. But I am saying that things can get better. You write: > "[Police] are never, in any precinct, going to be an acceptable institution." which I think is patently untrue -- there are several precincts where the police as an institution function excellently.
- swombat 13y ago
  It's high time to make the cops wear video cameras that are permanently turned on while on duty, and to make it a penalisable infraction for them to obstruct the camera without filling in reams of paperwork to justify it afterwards. FTFY. Or... Even better... It's high time to hire better cops.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    It doesn't even need to be enforced. Just give every single cop a reliable camera and make sure that it is well known that they have the things. Then you can ask them why they don't use the evidence recording device that would remove ambiguity from so many situations.
  - justizin 13y ago
    "hire better cops" usually translates to "pay cops more". SF and Oakland are already amongst the highest paying police departments and neither has almost any residents of their city working for them. I have met some of the police who are natives in both cities and it's a great way to get uninvited from Thanksgiving, and with good reason.

SFPD are going down this road, OPD (Oakland) and many others already do, but the officers often find an excuse for their camera to malfunction when they want, and in many cases they are instructed to turn the camera on themselves before interacting with anyone, and they simply don't. It turns out that telling the cops what to do isn't very effective.

wwweston 13y ago
You're probably right; there'd need to be incentives. Maybe tying pay and funding to available footage?
- ewang1 13y ago
  Live video uplink... and they can call all the officers with "malfunctioning" cameras back to the station to get a replacement.
mcherm 13y ago
But the existence of the cameras can solve this problem (assuming that the footage is made available for subpoena). For instance, if this particular officer has a history of having their camera malfunction right before arrests and do so at rates far higher than other officers then this fact could be brought up in court.
- justizin 13y ago
  The real world just doesn't work that way. Cops are not accountable. We need to take more responsibility for policing our own communities and spend less time demanding that more money is spent on police budgets. These SFPD were whining about how they can't afford to live in SF, but they make as much as I do SPECIFICALLY to address that problem. Police are "State Violence". They exist to encourage the rest of us to follow the rules for fear of SPECIFICALLY this sort of situation. They are never, in any precinct, going to be an acceptable institution. They will not find your stolen shit, they might arrest you if you witness a tragedy, and if you want to go tell your elected representatives they are a bunch of assholes, they will come out in paramilitary gear and spray fucking pepper spray or teargas in your face. They have one of the strongest unions in the country and their own bill of rights. Cameras are a good idea, but they're just not going to fix this. I would love to see people in the tech industry get involved in CopWatch, talk to people that have been doing this, esp in the bay area for decades. It is ASTOUNDINGLY difficult to get even a reprimand on file. Look at Johannes Mehserle and John Pike, extreme cases, but if their behavior is above reproach, how do you think that grabbing a random person and stomping you into the ground for noncompliance while you are in a state of shock is going to get them anything but a few laughs at the cop bar. I wish technology could fix the police, but it cannot.
  - mcherm 13y ago
    I simply cannot share in your level of pessimism. I believe that if the behavior of the bad actors were visible that it would change. I am not saying that things are not terrible: they may be. But I am saying that things can get better. You write: > "[Police] are never, in any precinct, going to be an acceptable institution." which I think is patently untrue -- there are several precincts where the police as an institution function excellently.
swombat 13y ago
It's high time to make the cops wear video cameras that are permanently turned on while on duty, and to make it a penalisable infraction for them to obstruct the camera without filling in reams of paperwork to justify it afterwards. FTFY. Or... Even better... It's high time to hire better cops.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  It doesn't even need to be enforced. Just give every single cop a reliable camera and make sure that it is well known that they have the things. Then you can ask them why they don't use the evidence recording device that would remove ambiguity from so many situations.
- justizin 13y ago
  "hire better cops" usually translates to "pay cops more". SF and Oakland are already amongst the highest paying police departments and neither has almost any residents of their city working for them. I have met some of the police who are natives in both cities and it's a great way to get uninvited from Thanksgiving, and with good reason.