4 ms·

"there are some times when it's ok to not pay them" No. No, there are not. If someone is working for you, then you pay them. It's that simple.

innoying 13y ago
The problem here is you two are disagreeing because you're approaching the problem from different viewpoints: legal and ethical. Is it legal to hire an intern unpaid? Yes (assuming you comply with the law). Is it ethical to hire an intern unpaid? Most tech people (The majority of HN's audience) would say no. But, that's for your company to decide.
wdewind 13y ago
I think there are a ton of different situations, and certainly sometimes unpaid internships can be exploitative, but I wouldn't agree that by definition they are. Either way, our article is more about the legal issues than the ethical ones. I suppose I should've said "some times when it's legal not to pay them." :)
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  I don't know if unpaid internships are technically considered "hiring", but I think that is the root of the misunderstanding. All the implications of the word "hiring" that I can think of violate your 6 point test. You don't hire people to educate them, or to benefit them primarily, or to not do something your employees would do.
- mode0 13y ago
  >>The employer derives no immediate advantage from the intern; If the intern is doing work for free that the employer would have to have a paid employee perform, they are gaining an advantage and therefore are violating the law. Can you honestly give an example of an unpaid internship where the employer is not gaining an advantage? If so, then it is fine to not pay them. But those are very, very rare. My opinion, obviously, but I can't think of a non-contrived example.
- jackmaney 13y ago
  If you're working for free, then you're being exploited. Period. I'll tell you what. If you don't think that unpaid internships are that bad, then why don't you give up your salary and work for nothing?

innoying 13y ago

The problem here is you two are disagreeing because you're approaching the problem from different viewpoints: legal and ethical. Is it legal to hire an intern unpaid? Yes (assuming you comply with the law). Is it ethical to hire an intern unpaid? Most tech people (The majority of HN's audience) would say no. But, that's for your company to decide.

wdewind 13y ago

I think there are a ton of different situations, and certainly sometimes unpaid internships can be exploitative, but I wouldn't agree that by definition they are. Either way, our article is more about the legal issues than the ethical ones. I suppose I should've said "some times when it's legal not to pay them." :)

TallGuyShort 13y ago
I don't know if unpaid internships are technically considered "hiring", but I think that is the root of the misunderstanding. All the implications of the word "hiring" that I can think of violate your 6 point test. You don't hire people to educate them, or to benefit them primarily, or to not do something your employees would do.
mode0 13y ago
>>The employer derives no immediate advantage from the intern; If the intern is doing work for free that the employer would have to have a paid employee perform, they are gaining an advantage and therefore are violating the law. Can you honestly give an example of an unpaid internship where the employer is not gaining an advantage? If so, then it is fine to not pay them. But those are very, very rare. My opinion, obviously, but I can't think of a non-contrived example.
jackmaney 13y ago
If you're working for free, then you're being exploited. Period. I'll tell you what. If you don't think that unpaid internships are that bad, then why don't you give up your salary and work for nothing?