4 ms·

The equipment is better for making the airline money, but doesn't sound especially more difficult to operate, certainly not 10x as difficult. Does working on a

The equipment is better for making the airline money, but doesn't sound especially more difficult to operate, certainly not 10x as difficult. Does working on a product that produces 10x the revenue justify paying ten times as much? Union seniority rules (where pay increases with time of employment, and the cushiest jobs go to the most "senior") are one of the worse parts of unions IMHO, and discredit what should be a positive force for more reasonable, equitable workplaces. > Also, senior pilots by definition have a limited amount of time left in their career (thanks to mandatory retirement age), the big paychecks don't last too many years. I'm guessing large pensions for retired senior pilots are also part of the problem.

davedx 13y ago
> Does working on a product that produces 10x the revenue justify paying ten times as much? But how else do you quantify salaries in business?
- michaelt 13y ago
  I pay the same for a pencil whether I use it to write a bestselling novel or to doodle in boring lectures.
raverbashing 13y ago
It's not only about "difficulty of operating the equipment" which, yes, is not that much complicated It's experience, especially in: - Dealing with foreign ATC - Meteorological conditions - Emergency situations
- mnw21cam 13y ago
  It's about responsibility. The captain of an airplane is responsible for the lives of everyone aboard, and for the equipment itself. It is a criminal offense to disobey an order given by the captain.
jonknee 13y ago
> Union seniority rules (where pay increases with time of employment, and the cushiest jobs go to the most "senior") are one of the worse parts of unions IMHO, and discredit what should be a positive force for more reasonable, equitable workplaces. Opposed to non-union workplaces where the inexperienced workers make the most money? Experience always pays more. I understand what you're getting at where it's not fair that a young superstar makes less than an old know-nothing, but in general more years of experience does equal more value. I'd want the heart surgeon who has 25+ years of experience more than I'd want the kid just off the residency. I'm sure the younger surgeon has the chops, but if the one in a million thing happens during my surgery I want the experienced surgeon. Pilots are very similar.
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  There's usually other ways to demonstrate experience than just years on the job, but in union shops that is the primary indicator. At least, that's how I remember it (worked in a union shop for a total of... 8 weeks?) In many jobs, there's not much more experience you need to get the job done, so 'time on job' is really all there is. Flying... certainly more experience should equate to better ability (dealing with weather, etc). Cutting meat in a butcher shop? 10 days or 10 years is going to be pretty much the same.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Indeed, if something goes wrong I want the same level of skill as the guys who landed the plane in the Hudson or saved a 747 after a volcano stopped all 4 engines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 The famous announcement from the latter emergency: "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress."

davedx 13y ago

> Does working on a product that produces 10x the revenue justify paying ten times as much? But how else do you quantify salaries in business?

michaelt 13y ago
I pay the same for a pencil whether I use it to write a bestselling novel or to doodle in boring lectures.

raverbashing 13y ago

It's not only about "difficulty of operating the equipment" which, yes, is not that much complicated It's experience, especially in: - Dealing with foreign ATC - Meteorological conditions - Emergency situations

mnw21cam 13y ago
It's about responsibility. The captain of an airplane is responsible for the lives of everyone aboard, and for the equipment itself. It is a criminal offense to disobey an order given by the captain.

jonknee 13y ago

> Union seniority rules (where pay increases with time of employment, and the cushiest jobs go to the most "senior") are one of the worse parts of unions IMHO, and discredit what should be a positive force for more reasonable, equitable workplaces. Opposed to non-union workplaces where the inexperienced workers make the most money? Experience always pays more. I understand what you're getting at where it's not fair that a young superstar makes less than an old know-nothing, but in general more years of experience does equal more value. I'd want the heart surgeon who has 25+ years of experience more than I'd want the kid just off the residency. I'm sure the younger surgeon has the chops, but if the one in a million thing happens during my surgery I want the experienced surgeon. Pilots are very similar.

mgkimsal 13y ago
There's usually other ways to demonstrate experience than just years on the job, but in union shops that is the primary indicator. At least, that's how I remember it (worked in a union shop for a total of... 8 weeks?) In many jobs, there's not much more experience you need to get the job done, so 'time on job' is really all there is. Flying... certainly more experience should equate to better ability (dealing with weather, etc). Cutting meat in a butcher shop? 10 days or 10 years is going to be pretty much the same.
arethuza 13y ago
Indeed, if something goes wrong I want the same level of skill as the guys who landed the plane in the Hudson or saved a 747 after a volcano stopped all 4 engines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 The famous announcement from the latter emergency: "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress."