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My brother committed suicide. He died for nothing,and nobody in the family even knows why he died. 10 years later, I feel like I dont care he died anymore, I ju

by camus2 13y ago

My brother committed suicide. He died for nothing,and nobody in the family even knows why he died. 10 years later, I feel like I dont care he died anymore, I just cant feel sorry for people committing suicide, it accomplishes nothing,except destroying a family ,making relatives feel guilty all their life. Suicide is the most selfish thing one can do, that's my opinion.

marquis 13y ago
I'm sorry for your loss.
duney 13y ago
It isn't selfish of someone to have had a mental illness that drove them to commit suicide. I'm sorry for your loss, but I disagree with your assessment of suicide being a selfish act.
primitivesuave 13y ago
My best friend from childhood threw himself in front of a train almost exactly 1 year ago (Feb 18th). He had just got his college degree, had an amazing family and all the support in the world. When he took his own life, I had an initial period of unanswerable questions and great sorrow, followed by deep resentment. He had so many people he could have reached out to and so many people reaching out to him, and he just decided to take an easier way out. It was selfish to leave his family hanging like that with so many questions, and the worst part is how difficult it was for them to move on.
mikeash 13y ago
Would you be saying that if he died of cancer instead of mental illness? People have this bizarre idea that mental illness somehow doesn't "count". That you have to fight it, and that if you lose, it's your own fault. You are, right here, blaming the victim of the disease. Your brother died from a mental illness. It killed him, just as surely as cancer or a heart attack might have killed him. You'd never, ever, ever say that someone who's killed by a heart attack is "selfish", so don't do it for mental illnesses either.
- dreamdu5t 13y ago
  People disagree with that perspective because it implies that the brain is entirely deterministic biologically and has no plasticity. That you have no mental control over your physiology. That you don't have control over your attitude and outlook, etc.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Attitude is proven to have an effect on cancer remission rates. Yet we still call it a disease and say that it killed you, not that you selfishly killed yourself due to not getting better. You have some control. Far less than the "suicide is selfish" idiocy assumes.
    - dreamdu5t 13y ago
      So you're claiming suicide is caused by a biological mechanism? That once we identify that mechanism, we could prevent suicide? Great, maybe that's the case. However, there's no more evidence for that than the assertion that suicide is a choice.
      - Mz 13y ago
        There is some evidence that brain chemistry is influenced by diet and dietary changes can help with depression. For example: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/fish-oil-supplements/faq-20058143 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/exp... That fits with my experience. I have to be very careful with peanut oil, for example. It does terrible things to me. So, in short, it is possible that depression and other mental illness has biological roots. There are also social factors and other factors, but in some sense mental illness may well be a medical illness.
- grahamburger 13y ago
  Actually I might say about someone who had a heart attack or cancer. A father whose doctor and family begged him to change his diet and exercise habits for years before his fatal heart attack, or a mother who continued smoking even after the cancer set in, for example. Yes, mental illness is very much like any other illness, and like any other illness it can often be prevented and managed through lifestyle changes under a doctor's direction. I'm with GP - with a few rare exceptions suicide is a purely selfish and preventable act.
pyrrhotech 13y ago
I get the point but there are definitely more selfish things one can do. Blow up buildings, serial kill, rape people, etc. While suicide clearly affects others, on some level we and only we should have a say over what we do with our own lives.
justzisguyuknow 13y ago
I used to think the same thing. I have never been suicidal so I don't know from personal experience, but I recall reading something that helped me understand suicide as something more than self-absorption. That the pain of deep depression is so real and intense that it can be compared to physical pain, and when it gets strong enough, simply ending it becomes its own imperative. That suicide is like jumping from a burning building - it's hardly even a choice, the pain compels the body to do it. Some additional reading material that might help inspire some compassion, also both good and entertaining reads in their own right: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-... http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/12/20/101220fi_fiction_saunders http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/12/20/101220f...
- VolatileVoid 13y ago
  Depression isn't just /like/ physical pain. It can cause real, physical pain. Pain, for which you go to doctors who say "oh, you're fine." Pain for which you go to dentists only to hear "oh, you're fine." In many (most? all?) people depression has a physical manifestation. It hurts. It aches. It's not a "hole in your heart," it's like having the flu. All the time. It's not like a toothache. It is a toothache. This distinction has to be made because it's important: the pain is real - even if it is just created by brain chemistry.
- dfraser992 13y ago
  Suicide, ingestion of drugs (incl. alcohol), addiction, religious fervor - all of these can be thought of as ways to escape the weight of "the self". A more abstract theory than "neurotransmitters being out of balance", but more useful perhaps in understanding what compels a person to act in those ways. People who commit suicide out of the blue, surprising friends and family, probably felt they were living a lie in some way, and couldn't see any way to get out of that other than escaping it entirely. If someone says "but they seemed to have it all under control" then ... how does anyone know what goes on in the head of another person? I'm surprised I see no mention of the poem "Richard Cory" whenever this topic arises http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/ http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/
btmorex 13y ago
I'm sorry you cannot feel compassion or empathy for your brother. From personal experience, it makes it much easier if not understandable.
vacri 13y ago
Most (not all) people who commit suicide aren't in their right minds and aren't thinking clearly. Denigrating it as being selfish misses the point of what's going on for the person. it accomplishes nothing It accomplishes nothing for you. For the person committing suicide, it frees them from significant pain of some sort. That might be psychological pain due to a disturbed mental state, but it's still pain. Guilt is a hard one and you have to learn to deal with it and move on, but blaming the victim isn't going to help there.
downandout 13y ago
I feel like I don't care he died anymore I hope you are just angry that he committed suicide, and don't actually mean that. If you do mean that, you shouldn't be surprised that he killed himself. Suicidal people tend to look frantically for any reason they can find to not carry through with it. This kind of cold, judgmental attitude shown by a loved one at the wrong time can be the final straw.

by camus2 13y ago

marquis 13y ago

I'm sorry for your loss.

duney 13y ago

It isn't selfish of someone to have had a mental illness that drove them to commit suicide. I'm sorry for your loss, but I disagree with your assessment of suicide being a selfish act.

primitivesuave 13y ago

My best friend from childhood threw himself in front of a train almost exactly 1 year ago (Feb 18th). He had just got his college degree, had an amazing family and all the support in the world. When he took his own life, I had an initial period of unanswerable questions and great sorrow, followed by deep resentment. He had so many people he could have reached out to and so many people reaching out to him, and he just decided to take an easier way out. It was selfish to leave his family hanging like that with so many questions, and the worst part is how difficult it was for them to move on.

mikeash 13y ago

Would you be saying that if he died of cancer instead of mental illness? People have this bizarre idea that mental illness somehow doesn't "count". That you have to fight it, and that if you lose, it's your own fault. You are, right here, blaming the victim of the disease. Your brother died from a mental illness. It killed him, just as surely as cancer or a heart attack might have killed him. You'd never, ever, ever say that someone who's killed by a heart attack is "selfish", so don't do it for mental illnesses either.

dreamdu5t 13y ago
People disagree with that perspective because it implies that the brain is entirely deterministic biologically and has no plasticity. That you have no mental control over your physiology. That you don't have control over your attitude and outlook, etc.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Attitude is proven to have an effect on cancer remission rates. Yet we still call it a disease and say that it killed you, not that you selfishly killed yourself due to not getting better. You have some control. Far less than the "suicide is selfish" idiocy assumes.
  - dreamdu5t 13y ago
    So you're claiming suicide is caused by a biological mechanism? That once we identify that mechanism, we could prevent suicide? Great, maybe that's the case. However, there's no more evidence for that than the assertion that suicide is a choice.
    - Mz 13y ago
      There is some evidence that brain chemistry is influenced by diet and dietary changes can help with depression. For example: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/fish-oil-supplements/faq-20058143 http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/exp... That fits with my experience. I have to be very careful with peanut oil, for example. It does terrible things to me. So, in short, it is possible that depression and other mental illness has biological roots. There are also social factors and other factors, but in some sense mental illness may well be a medical illness.
grahamburger 13y ago
Actually I might say about someone who had a heart attack or cancer. A father whose doctor and family begged him to change his diet and exercise habits for years before his fatal heart attack, or a mother who continued smoking even after the cancer set in, for example. Yes, mental illness is very much like any other illness, and like any other illness it can often be prevented and managed through lifestyle changes under a doctor's direction. I'm with GP - with a few rare exceptions suicide is a purely selfish and preventable act.

pyrrhotech 13y ago

I get the point but there are definitely more selfish things one can do. Blow up buildings, serial kill, rape people, etc. While suicide clearly affects others, on some level we and only we should have a say over what we do with our own lives.

justzisguyuknow 13y ago

I used to think the same thing. I have never been suicidal so I don't know from personal experience, but I recall reading something that helped me understand suicide as something more than self-absorption. That the pain of deep depression is so real and intense that it can be compared to physical pain, and when it gets strong enough, simply ending it becomes its own imperative. That suicide is like jumping from a burning building - it's hardly even a choice, the pain compels the body to do it. Some additional reading material that might help inspire some compassion, also both good and entertaining reads in their own right: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-... http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/12/20/101220fi_fiction_saunders http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/12/20/101220f...

VolatileVoid 13y ago
Depression isn't just /like/ physical pain. It can cause real, physical pain. Pain, for which you go to doctors who say "oh, you're fine." Pain for which you go to dentists only to hear "oh, you're fine." In many (most? all?) people depression has a physical manifestation. It hurts. It aches. It's not a "hole in your heart," it's like having the flu. All the time. It's not like a toothache. It is a toothache. This distinction has to be made because it's important: the pain is real - even if it is just created by brain chemistry.
dfraser992 13y ago
Suicide, ingestion of drugs (incl. alcohol), addiction, religious fervor - all of these can be thought of as ways to escape the weight of "the self". A more abstract theory than "neurotransmitters being out of balance", but more useful perhaps in understanding what compels a person to act in those ways. People who commit suicide out of the blue, surprising friends and family, probably felt they were living a lie in some way, and couldn't see any way to get out of that other than escaping it entirely. If someone says "but they seemed to have it all under control" then ... how does anyone know what goes on in the head of another person? I'm surprised I see no mention of the poem "Richard Cory" whenever this topic arises http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/ http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/

btmorex 13y ago

I'm sorry you cannot feel compassion or empathy for your brother. From personal experience, it makes it much easier if not understandable.

vacri 13y ago

Most (not all) people who commit suicide aren't in their right minds and aren't thinking clearly. Denigrating it as being selfish misses the point of what's going on for the person. it accomplishes nothing It accomplishes nothing for you. For the person committing suicide, it frees them from significant pain of some sort. That might be psychological pain due to a disturbed mental state, but it's still pain. Guilt is a hard one and you have to learn to deal with it and move on, but blaming the victim isn't going to help there.

downandout 13y ago

I feel like I don't care he died anymore I hope you are just angry that he committed suicide, and don't actually mean that. If you do mean that, you shouldn't be surprised that he killed himself. Suicidal people tend to look frantically for any reason they can find to not carry through with it. This kind of cold, judgmental attitude shown by a loved one at the wrong time can be the final straw.