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Thank you for starting a conversation about this. I know it's difficult, but it's important for the health and wellbeing of many other people struggling with th

Thank you for starting a conversation about this. I know it's difficult, but it's important for the health and wellbeing of many other people struggling with the same problems that there are conversations like this one. I've struggled with depression too, though never been suicidal. Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. I hope you don't blame yourself for not being there for your brother. You can't predict when someone will need help, it's extremely difficult for most people to offer effective help, and people struggling with depression and other mental illnesses often get good at hiding it.

larrys 13y ago
I just forked and came up with your site with this: http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/ http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/ Just submitted it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491 Very interesting piece (will put my thoughts in the comments of that).
- thaumaturgy 13y ago
  Yikes! Thanks. I'll try to participate in that thread a bit.
wozniacki 13y ago
Without sounding insensitive, may I ask what it is - that you think - that is at the root of this stripe of depression that you seem to be well acquainted with. I know that this sort of thing cannot be easily summed up. However, most of us on the outside have little clue about what sets these things in motion, for various individuals, in the first place. Broadly and typically, is it a fundamental disillusionment with (and thereby rejection of) the state of affairs of the world and the person's place in that world? Is it a sense of (perceived) total betrayal of the social contract? I'm sure any elaboration would help others understand this better.
- Mz 13y ago
  I cannot answer for Rob, but there can be significant bio-medical factors. I am not really prone to depression. If I am depressed for more than a short period of time, you can bet I am anemic, not sleeping well enough, etc. But I have a serious medical condition and have lived with quite a lot of crazy-making stress over the years. If my brain chemistry is wonky enough, I can be suicidal, in spite of not being the depressive type. I know a fair amount about such things. I suspect bio-medical/brain chemistry issues are much more common than is generally recognized. I manage a lot of my issues in part with diet. I think a lot more can be done. But I don't know how to get the word out.
- thaumaturgy 13y ago
  For me, it seems to be multi-faceted. There's definitely some kind of mood swing component that seems entirely biological; regardless of whether things are going well in life or not, there are periods of between a week and sometimes as long as a month where I simply have difficulty getting up in the morning, focusing, socializing, and maintaining healthy habits like regular exercise. Usually my sugar consumption skyrockets when this happens and I keep bad hours and the cycle feeds into itself. Then there seems to be a slightly greater sensitivity to problems. Outwardly, I can power through a lot of problems -- financial trouble, management, work, personal life stuff, whatever -- but inwardly, it kills me a little bit. Annoyingly, other people's problems bother me a lot too, extending all the way out to sociological issues. I think this is part of what created David Foster Wallace's famous speech, "This is Water" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI) -- he eventually committed suicide. But this can also be a strength, it's what drives me to try to make a difference. Anyway, the real trouble begins when I'm in a biological downswing and things in life start getting really hard. In a single year, I lost most of my friends over a disagreement, my parents both had serious issues (and I was their counselor for much of it), my business was struggling, and the effort I had put into training for search and rescue all Summer got wasted when the vehicle I was driving died on the way up to the final exam. It was just a lot of stuff all at once, so when the mood problems hit, I barely functioned at all for about a month. The only common theme that I think I've found so far among people who struggle with depression is a feeling that nobody cares about them, or that they're undervalued in some really big way. Struggling with depression is challenging; struggling with it alone is extremely difficult. On the other hand, because of the social stigma it currently carries, few people want to make a big deal of depression when they're struggling with it. So, if you think you know someone who's having trouble with it, it can sometimes help them a lot to just initiate contact and suggest spending just a little bit of time doing something they enjoy: a card game, going out for a bit, watching TV, whatever. It doesn't have to get heavy. It'll help them to know that somebody cares.
ScottBurson 13y ago
> Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. Wow. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.
- thaumaturgy 13y ago
  Thanks.

larrys 13y ago

I just forked and came up with your site with this: http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/ http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/ Just submitted it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491 Very interesting piece (will put my thoughts in the comments of that).

thaumaturgy 13y ago
Yikes! Thanks. I'll try to participate in that thread a bit.

wozniacki 13y ago

Without sounding insensitive, may I ask what it is - that you think - that is at the root of this stripe of depression that you seem to be well acquainted with. I know that this sort of thing cannot be easily summed up. However, most of us on the outside have little clue about what sets these things in motion, for various individuals, in the first place. Broadly and typically, is it a fundamental disillusionment with (and thereby rejection of) the state of affairs of the world and the person's place in that world? Is it a sense of (perceived) total betrayal of the social contract? I'm sure any elaboration would help others understand this better.

Mz 13y ago
I cannot answer for Rob, but there can be significant bio-medical factors. I am not really prone to depression. If I am depressed for more than a short period of time, you can bet I am anemic, not sleeping well enough, etc. But I have a serious medical condition and have lived with quite a lot of crazy-making stress over the years. If my brain chemistry is wonky enough, I can be suicidal, in spite of not being the depressive type. I know a fair amount about such things. I suspect bio-medical/brain chemistry issues are much more common than is generally recognized. I manage a lot of my issues in part with diet. I think a lot more can be done. But I don't know how to get the word out.
thaumaturgy 13y ago
For me, it seems to be multi-faceted. There's definitely some kind of mood swing component that seems entirely biological; regardless of whether things are going well in life or not, there are periods of between a week and sometimes as long as a month where I simply have difficulty getting up in the morning, focusing, socializing, and maintaining healthy habits like regular exercise. Usually my sugar consumption skyrockets when this happens and I keep bad hours and the cycle feeds into itself. Then there seems to be a slightly greater sensitivity to problems. Outwardly, I can power through a lot of problems -- financial trouble, management, work, personal life stuff, whatever -- but inwardly, it kills me a little bit. Annoyingly, other people's problems bother me a lot too, extending all the way out to sociological issues. I think this is part of what created David Foster Wallace's famous speech, "This is Water" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI) -- he eventually committed suicide. But this can also be a strength, it's what drives me to try to make a difference. Anyway, the real trouble begins when I'm in a biological downswing and things in life start getting really hard. In a single year, I lost most of my friends over a disagreement, my parents both had serious issues (and I was their counselor for much of it), my business was struggling, and the effort I had put into training for search and rescue all Summer got wasted when the vehicle I was driving died on the way up to the final exam. It was just a lot of stuff all at once, so when the mood problems hit, I barely functioned at all for about a month. The only common theme that I think I've found so far among people who struggle with depression is a feeling that nobody cares about them, or that they're undervalued in some really big way. Struggling with depression is challenging; struggling with it alone is extremely difficult. On the other hand, because of the social stigma it currently carries, few people want to make a big deal of depression when they're struggling with it. So, if you think you know someone who's having trouble with it, it can sometimes help them a lot to just initiate contact and suggest spending just a little bit of time doing something they enjoy: a card game, going out for a bit, watching TV, whatever. It doesn't have to get heavy. It'll help them to know that somebody cares.

ScottBurson 13y ago

> Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. Wow. My heart goes out to you. Hang in there.

thaumaturgy 13y ago
Thanks.