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That's a pretty _horrible_ example of the parties coalescing into a single viewpoint, since intentionally defaulting on our debts is an extremist view by any d

That's a pretty _horrible_ example of the parties coalescing into a single viewpoint, since intentionally defaulting on our debts is an extremist view by any definition. That's like saying "clearly the two parties are basically the same because they both don't support nuking Russia". "Both parties agree not to act like lunatics" is a terrible example of "the parties are merging". A much less bizarre example would be the way the parties have moved towards each other on issues like national security, the finance industry, etc.

dmix 13y ago
This is not an extreme example. The alternative was conditional terms on expanding the debt limit, not defaulting on the debt. The bill passed without any additional restrictions on spending or changes to collection. The national debt is one of the biggest issues in the country right now and both parties are doing little to stop its expansion. As I said in my original comment, the fringe are the ones who are legitimately different from the single party, for example, as you mentioned, the Tea Partiers would support either defaulting or significant restrictions on spending.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > The national debt is one of the biggest issues in the country right now I disagree with this claim. Unfortunately, it is also the claim upon which the rest of your claims are founded, so I'll have to disagree with everything else you said, too.
  - dmix 13y ago
    > I disagree with this claim. Unsupported opinions are pretty meaningless. How is it not one of the biggest issues? The national debt story has been making constant front-page of news for 3+ years now. Anyone who doesn't see the huge long-term significance of the massive debt is exhibiting significant ignorance to economics. The USA is making a serious gamble that the economy will be strong and fast-growing for the next 5-10 years. If not, it's going to get nasty.
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      > The national debt story has been making constant front-page of news for 3+ years now So has Justin Beeber; that doesn't validate it. In the news != newsworthy.
    - dlp211 13y ago
      It is only a big issue if you don't understand the economics.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      "The USA is making a serious gamble that the economy will be strong and fast-growing for the next 5-10 years." You know who else is making that bet? The people eagerly buying t-bills. So eager, in fact, that they're loaning us this money at well below inflation - they're more or less paying us to keep their money safe. We should be sure we're using borrowed money for something reasonable (building infrastructure, smoothing short term needs) rather than on what amounts to consumption, though that distinction may be hard to make.
- OnyeaboAduba 13y ago
  If you owe your bank 10000 dollars and cant pay you have a problem if you owe your bank 1 million (or in our case 17 trillion)and cant pay they have a problem.
  - dmix 13y ago
    A significant portion of the debt is held by Americans. I don't get your point.
    - OnyeaboAduba 13y ago
      My point is debt isn’t a problem unless there are significant consequences attached to it. You talk of economic understanding but your theory is flawed.
  - twoodfin 13y ago
    This analogy makes sense, but surely there's a debt/GDP ratio where it breaks down, no? How do we know what that is?
- gnaritas 13y ago
  The national debt is a problem created by the budget, not by the debt ceiling. Using the threat of not paying debt you've already incurred via the laws you've already passed to try and circumvent the political process is idiotic and harmful. The debt ceiling does not create debt, it should always be raised, it should in fact be eliminated and all debt incurred should simply be paid period. The place to deal with the debt issue is in budget negotiations, not by refusing to pay bills from past budgets because you didn't agree with past agreements.
cpr 13y ago
Actually, as Rand Paul himself said, defaulting on our debt is the last thing we should do, and by bringing it up, Obama was playing a very cynical card. The feds have no problem paying the debt service (though of course the growing debt is a problem); it's everything else they can't afford. Ultimately, it's Congress' problem, not Obama's. He doesn't pass budget bills. But there are almost zero folks in Congress with enough backbone to do anything about it.

dmix 13y ago

This is not an extreme example. The alternative was conditional terms on expanding the debt limit, not defaulting on the debt. The bill passed without any additional restrictions on spending or changes to collection. The national debt is one of the biggest issues in the country right now and both parties are doing little to stop its expansion. As I said in my original comment, the fringe are the ones who are legitimately different from the single party, for example, as you mentioned, the Tea Partiers would support either defaulting or significant restrictions on spending.

saraid216 13y ago
> The national debt is one of the biggest issues in the country right now I disagree with this claim. Unfortunately, it is also the claim upon which the rest of your claims are founded, so I'll have to disagree with everything else you said, too.
- dmix 13y ago
  > I disagree with this claim. Unsupported opinions are pretty meaningless. How is it not one of the biggest issues? The national debt story has been making constant front-page of news for 3+ years now. Anyone who doesn't see the huge long-term significance of the massive debt is exhibiting significant ignorance to economics. The USA is making a serious gamble that the economy will be strong and fast-growing for the next 5-10 years. If not, it's going to get nasty.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    > The national debt story has been making constant front-page of news for 3+ years now So has Justin Beeber; that doesn't validate it. In the news != newsworthy.
  - dlp211 13y ago
    It is only a big issue if you don't understand the economics.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    "The USA is making a serious gamble that the economy will be strong and fast-growing for the next 5-10 years." You know who else is making that bet? The people eagerly buying t-bills. So eager, in fact, that they're loaning us this money at well below inflation - they're more or less paying us to keep their money safe. We should be sure we're using borrowed money for something reasonable (building infrastructure, smoothing short term needs) rather than on what amounts to consumption, though that distinction may be hard to make.
OnyeaboAduba 13y ago
If you owe your bank 10000 dollars and cant pay you have a problem if you owe your bank 1 million (or in our case 17 trillion)and cant pay they have a problem.
- dmix 13y ago
  A significant portion of the debt is held by Americans. I don't get your point.
  - OnyeaboAduba 13y ago
    My point is debt isn’t a problem unless there are significant consequences attached to it. You talk of economic understanding but your theory is flawed.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  This analogy makes sense, but surely there's a debt/GDP ratio where it breaks down, no? How do we know what that is?
gnaritas 13y ago
The national debt is a problem created by the budget, not by the debt ceiling. Using the threat of not paying debt you've already incurred via the laws you've already passed to try and circumvent the political process is idiotic and harmful. The debt ceiling does not create debt, it should always be raised, it should in fact be eliminated and all debt incurred should simply be paid period. The place to deal with the debt issue is in budget negotiations, not by refusing to pay bills from past budgets because you didn't agree with past agreements.

cpr 13y ago

Actually, as Rand Paul himself said, defaulting on our debt is the last thing we should do, and by bringing it up, Obama was playing a very cynical card. The feds have no problem paying the debt service (though of course the growing debt is a problem); it's everything else they can't afford. Ultimately, it's Congress' problem, not Obama's. He doesn't pass budget bills. But there are almost zero folks in Congress with enough backbone to do anything about it.