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So, what's the advantage of Smalltalk over Ruby? It seems like Ruby is a better Perl than Perl, a better Smalltalk than Smalltalk, and a better Python than Pyt

So, what's the advantage of Smalltalk over Ruby? It seems like Ruby is a better Perl than Perl, a better Smalltalk than Smalltalk, and a better Python than Python. It's slow (though that's getting better) but otherwise it allows genuinely beautiful system design.

akavi 13y ago
>a better Python than Python As someone who's quite the Ruby fan, this is the only one on the list I'd object to. There's a very real philosophical difference between the two, which I'd identify as being their attitude to "magic". Ruby is OK with a certain level of increased complexity and semi-hidden behaviour if it means more expressivity. Python, on the other hand, prefers simplicity and explicitness. It's not the most radical divide, and I don't really think either one is the One True Philosophy; they're just different. And neither is better at embodying the other's philosophy.
- Avshalom 13y ago
  Well I mean that's Smalltalk: Things that look like magic in Ruby look as simple and explicit as Python in Smalltalk.
rgrau 13y ago
The environment. If you think pry is a cool tool for Ruby, you gotta see any smalltalk platform.
agumonkey 13y ago
I remember a rubyconf talk from a ST veteran saying if they'd only look at its VM nobody would ever say 'Ruby is slow' again. So all things being equal, that's one advantage.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I do believe it was the Gemstone folks (http://maglev.github.io http://maglev.github.io)
  - agumonkey 13y ago
    seems right : - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0BHJ7fUoc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0BHJ7fUoc - http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/05/MagLevAtRailsConf http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/05/MagLevAtRailsConf Weird that it never got any steam or buzz ..
masklinn 13y ago
> So, what's the advantage of Smalltalk over Ruby? Smaller language, more coherent, first-class blocks, clearer messaging syntax, message cascading, conditions, … > a better Smalltalk than Smalltalk Not by a long shot no. > and a better Python than Python Not that one either.
pjmlp 13y ago
Lets see. The concepts of live coding originated in Lisp and Smalltalk environments. Smalltalk was the birth of IDEs and unit testing. Also its sucessors StrongTalk and SELF were the first environments to have JIT compilers. Finally, having Smalltalk as OS made the computers quite interactive.

akavi 13y ago

>a better Python than Python As someone who's quite the Ruby fan, this is the only one on the list I'd object to. There's a very real philosophical difference between the two, which I'd identify as being their attitude to "magic". Ruby is OK with a certain level of increased complexity and semi-hidden behaviour if it means more expressivity. Python, on the other hand, prefers simplicity and explicitness. It's not the most radical divide, and I don't really think either one is the One True Philosophy; they're just different. And neither is better at embodying the other's philosophy.

Avshalom 13y ago
Well I mean that's Smalltalk: Things that look like magic in Ruby look as simple and explicit as Python in Smalltalk.

rgrau 13y ago

The environment. If you think pry is a cool tool for Ruby, you gotta see any smalltalk platform.

agumonkey 13y ago

I remember a rubyconf talk from a ST veteran saying if they'd only look at its VM nobody would ever say 'Ruby is slow' again. So all things being equal, that's one advantage.

protomyth 13y ago
I do believe it was the Gemstone folks (http://maglev.github.io http://maglev.github.io)
- agumonkey 13y ago
  seems right : - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0BHJ7fUoc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh0BHJ7fUoc - http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/05/MagLevAtRailsConf http://www.infoq.com/news/2008/05/MagLevAtRailsConf Weird that it never got any steam or buzz ..

masklinn 13y ago

> So, what's the advantage of Smalltalk over Ruby? Smaller language, more coherent, first-class blocks, clearer messaging syntax, message cascading, conditions, … > a better Smalltalk than Smalltalk Not by a long shot no. > and a better Python than Python Not that one either.

pjmlp 13y ago

Lets see. The concepts of live coding originated in Lisp and Smalltalk environments. Smalltalk was the birth of IDEs and unit testing. Also its sucessors StrongTalk and SELF were the first environments to have JIT compilers. Finally, having Smalltalk as OS made the computers quite interactive.